Ask Woody about your KTM 19/17 wheel set-ups

[woody's wheel works]

welcome Orange Crushers to the world of the 19/17'' wheel conversion,,,the most popular road handling upgrade to your KTMs...be they Adventures ,SEs,,,SMs,,,LC-4s,,, LC-8s ,,or 690s

this thread is dedicated to synthezising and collating as much info on this topic in one easy to use place. I'm starting this off with a quick review of the highlights advantages/disadvantages/trade-offs of the conversion,,,and providing some links to threads/posts/pictures that provide you with interesting info/opinions/data accumulated over the years. I'm doing this to cut to the chase on this topic and help ease the pain of wading thru tons of searches..i need your help too,,,so if you find some data or links,,,POST em!!!

here we go,,,,this upgrade transforms your bike from a great dirt bike to an awesome touring...canyon carving,,,grin-eating experience!!!,,simply by swapping your wheels

Here's the advantages:
1..greatly improved road handling and enhanced canyon carving ability
2,,,increased braking
3,,,sits 3/4''-19mm lower to the ground,,the inseam challenged folks love this,,makes it easier to maneuver while sitting on the bike
4,,,access to the largest selection of dual-sport tires
5,, with stock gearing ,,the smaller rear wheel puts the oem 17/42 gearing spot on the money for snappy acceleration,,equivalent to you all lowering your gearing to 16/42 or 17/45 when using the 21/18 oem wheels.
6,,,you can snooker and smoke most everyone in the twisties

Here's the downside:
1,,,on some models the side-stand may be too long,,we can shorten them or provide an adjustable unit
Another solution is buying a shorter side stand say from a SM
2,,,you lose a little real dirt riding ability
3 ...it'll cost you $700-1700 depending on what you opt ie using your hubs as the basis save $599-700,,using your disc saves $$$

here's some links to:

Feed-back,,,,discussions,,,,threads,,,,photos,,,You Tube videos:

1a,,,ADVRIDER thread ''19/17 Setup Review '' from yellow pig:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...hlight=19%2F17

1b,,,You Tube videos:

19/17 close-ups by vasqueshd before installation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmx6X...layer_embedded

19/17 on bike by vasquezhd:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08bar...eature=related

2,,,McMann's comments n pics using the larger 5''x17''rear rim & 160/70x17tire size different than usual 4.25x17''rim using 150/70x17 tire

''I went to a 5" rear wheel and 160 size tire for my 950A because I like the way my 625SMC handled with stock 5.0" X 17 rim & 160 rear tire. A 5" will allow 160 or 170 size tires. ''







3,,, ADVRIDER thread ''[IMG]images/misc/navbits_finallink.gif[/IMG] 17/19 wheel combo - what width rim?''
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431434


4,,,This is the thread discussing optimal tires for the 2.5" X 19 front & 4.25" X 17 rear is standard
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351093

and here's Pyndon's comments plus a routine ride thru his beloved English back country roads ,,,showing you what he can and you too could do on this Superlaced wheel combo:

'' my 19"/17" with Michelin Anakees fitted. An awesome tyre for all year round riding in the UK, from sunshine to pissing it down with rain, these things seen to do the job

I mean, there's not many multi-purpose bikes that are quick and handle well in the twisties, will cruise at 100mph all day long (done it ) and enjoyable offroad too. I mean feck, lock-stops while backing it into a tight turn on a 500lb bike......I love it!





5,,, cjracer with his friends 19/17 Superlaced wheels using Bridgestone Pilots getting em gumballed during a track day...
Originally Posted by cjracer
1st track day on the 950. What a blast. This bike can do anything.




You can see here that I gumballed up the sides pretty good, but still had the nubs in the center.





PHOTOS and LINKS to PHOTOS:

..SEND IN YOUR PHOTOS AND I"LL LINK HERE!!

1,,,photos from Abyss:
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/58838...65657895_MUyXL

2,,,photos from: smitty 141 :

Got them on yesterday.... Scrubbed them in today... WOW I like um... Smitty







more pics: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298332


and now for the genuine Tubeless -rim crowd:
we offer the best cross-pollinated wheel around...
Aprillia CapoNord rims on billet hubs...

the Gobbler in action on MT. Palomar with his new Caponords

---

one pic is worth a thousand words.....+++++








Nowwhat's set up being flogged two up...



Nowwhat's opinion:

[I put the caponards on for 100% street use to haul the wife around...would never dream of taking them off road....on the street they are extremely confidence inspiring....It was only a few minutes of riding before my boots were scraping the ground in the turns.... ]quote

more info on this set-up here:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=284243&page=2

TECH INFO:

1,,,Tire fitment chart...just click on these words to see what rims and tires work together...REMEMBER!!!,,the narrower your rim the less likely it will bend in the rough stuff...
http://www.woodyswheelworks.com/ktm.shtml




Gadget Boy's HOT-SET-UP to search AdvRider via Google. It yields quick and copious results! Check it out here
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346422


Pass the word,,and chip in!!! As we all post in this thread i'll try to move the contributions into the above categories via links and cut n pasting.

hope this idea flies and works for you all...There's so much valuable info in this forum,,,this should get the best of it out of past threads n posts,,,it'll save many from endless searching and others including myself from saying the same thing over and over,,,Pssst,,me???,,,i'd rather be riding
woody

[woody's wheel works]

hey guys,,,help me add your FAQs to this thread..
thanks ,,woody

[tundra61]

I have a question about wheels for an 08 530 exc.

I am looking for a second set of wheels to keep more street oriented rubber mounted on. Something like the tires the come on the adventure.

I am assuming I don't want to go to supermoto wheels because I don't want to have to change brake mounting points, gearing etc. I just want to be able to easily swap wheels so that if I am going to spend the day on the road (dirt or paved) I can have a better ride than I would with the normal non-DOT knobbies.

So, what is the best rim/hub combo for a reasonable price and do I need a cush hub?

[woody's wheel works]

Originally Posted by tundra61

I have a question about wheels for an 08 530 exc.

I am looking for a second set of wheels to keep more street oriented rubber mounted on. Something like the tires the come on the adventure.

I am assuming I don't want to go to supermoto wheels because I don't want to have to change brake mounting points, gearing etc. I just want to be able to easily swap wheels so that if I am going to spend the day on the road (dirt or paved) I can have a better ride than I would with the normal non-DOT knobbies.

So, what is the best rim/hub combo for a reasonable price and do I need a cush hub?

the familiar mantra goes like this--
1..2.50x19'' front
2..4.25x17 rear
3..cush drive
simple as that,,,cush drive hub and sprocket assy swap with your existing rear hub,,maximum choice of dual sport tires available ,,,ie same size as all the BMW dual sports...check my web site below for prices,,i'm in germany,,i'm in germany,,,my troops will help you for sure,,, woody

[Chuckracer]

How about a 19/17 set for a 950 Supermoto?

5.0 on the rear? 2.5 on the front? I wanna blast some dirt roads!!

[woody's wheel works]

Originally Posted by Chuckracer

How about a 19/17 set for a 950 Supermoto?

5.0 on the rear? 2.5 on the front? I wanna blast some dirt roads!!

been there n done that one many times..whatever you want
woody

[SPG]

Hi Woody,
Not sure if i am being a plonker , but how do you run a 19/17 set up on spoked wheels with tubless tyres ???

Spoke with my local dealer The KTM Centre in the UK and KTM are against all this due to probs with the Tube / Tyre prob , i have tried and failed to find an answer on your main thread so sorry IF its an obvious answer

SPG

950 Adv

[woody's wheel works]

Originally Posted by SPG

Hi Woody,
Not sure if i am being a plonker , but how do you run a 19/17 set up on spoked wheels with tubless tyres ???

Spoke with my local dealer The KTM Centre in the UK and KTM are against all this due to probs with the Tube / Tyre prob , i have tried and failed to find an answer on your main thread so sorry IF its an obvious answer

SPG

950 Adv

well there are three basic genres of tubeless wheels....

A,,cast/forged/ alloy wheels with machined surfaces

B,,,genuine tubeless rims made of steel or alloy that are void of any item that needs sealing they would fall into several sub-categories:

1,,,steel rims on your car BWOE

2,,,wire wheels with steel/alloy rims that have a place for nipples or spokes to attach to hub ie Moto-guzzi/BMW,Aprilia Caponord use this X-laced spoke technology

3,,,other types use a ''sealed rim with a flange that is part of the extrusion,,and attach it to the hub via spokes ala Gas-Gas trials bikes or riveted metal plate spokes like the old Honda Comstar wheels

C,,, all other wire spoke wheels that try to be sealed for tubeless by a variety of technologies,,ie liquid sealants of all types,,ie:silicone/plumbers goop/ Seal All etc,,,,or special taping systems,,or
special nipple/o-ring systems ,,,,or the new Tubliss System using bicycle tires and tubes to hold the
tire against the bead and seal off the area where the nipples come through the rim

here's another thread with more info on this topic
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284243

woody

PS,,the main concern is that you use rims/wheels that were designed and speced for tubeless application in conjunction with a tire that was designed for tubeless application,,our current tubeless technology is the result of a collaborative effort between the wheel and tire manufacturers. it requires tight specs on both their parts

[Yellow Pig]

I just moved my 19/17 set-up from my 950 ADV to my 950 SE.

All I had to do was remove the right side disk brake and use the EOM SE spacers and I was good to go.

The set up is wicked fun!

[woody's wheel works]

Yellow Pig,,thanks for the awesome photos,,now go bash that thing up independence pass again and provide some detailed feedback like ya did on your first test ride with that combo on your first 950!......or were these pics taken on the pass???

OBTW,,,funny i was up Independence pass just 36 hours ago,,,had my wife's BMW325i,,,,honest injun ,,i was thinking of you as i let the cob-webbs out of the ol brain and let her rip,,,,WHAT a HOOT,,,Fahrvergnugen...
i sure like it when the car responds so well you think it is an extension of your body and mind,,,,,this yellow print is for you and the aspens

Originally Posted by Yellow Pig

I just moved my 19/17 set-up from my 950 ADV to my 950 SE.

All I had to do was remove the right side disk brake and use the EOM SE spacers and I was good to go.

The set up is wicked fun!

[Yellow Pig]

This was just a quick mid-week romp up Mt Evans, had to sneak a ride in before the snow flew.

Once the Conti Trail Attacks, which by the way are awesome and stick really well even in cold conditions, are done I plan on giving the Michelin Pilot Road-2s a shot.

The wheels seem to work better on the SE than on the ADV. Not sure why. Most likely it's the better suspension, more aggressive riding position and the lighter weight up front. The bike seems more flick-able.

I love how the bike feels and handles. It's eve better than my old DRZ400 Super Moto w/ 17 all around.

PS: Remember it's Aprilia CapoNord, not Caponard, which in Italian means North Cape, the most norther point in Europe. For the Europeans it's the equivalent of Ushuaia, the souther tip of the American continent.

[BikerBobber]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Hi Woody

I have a 2001 KTM 640 LC4 supermoto (European model) and have been searching and searching trying to find out whether it is possible to buy or build an off-road set of wheels for this bike. Everyone seems to want to go to more street orientated wheels but there is little info about switching the other way.

Can you just build up some LC4 Adventure wheels, pop them on and off you go? Is it possible to have two sets of wheels that are interchangeable without needing to change brake callipers? I've read somewhere that the spokes hit the calliper... My mind has turned to mush from days spent on the net trying to find out some more info so I cant remember where I read that.

The reason I ask is a friend is planning a trip through Morocco in his Landie and I would love to tag along on my bike but the sm wheels would be a nightmare in the sand ...

Cheers
Trevor

Hi woody.
What was the answer to this? It never got posted...?
Thanks
Bob

Sent from my mobile.

[woody's wheel works]

Originally Posted by BikerBobber

Hi woody.
What was the answer to this? It never got posted...?
Thanks
Bob

Sent from my mobile.

So sorry,,sometimes a post or two 'falls through the cracks',,,,

I believe we have done this before,,,I'll get Zach my right hand wheel wizard,,regarding the various swap-outs chime in on this...he's currently in California at the Rawhyde Adventure Rallye.,,,and I'f we haven't we'll figure how to

Woody

[woody's wheel works]

Thanks for re-posting. We cannot say with complete certainty what all it would take to make the 640 ADV wheel fit on the SuMo front end as we have not done this exact conversion.

What's known(according to parts fiche) is that although the front bearings, seals, and hub are different the axle used is the same. So the front hub with the spacers should "fit" in the front end, but from there some food for thought.

The main reason that an Adv wheel will not just fit on to the SM is because The 17" SuMo wheel is built with a x-lace(meaning from the hub to the rim, the spokes cross over the centerline of the rim) to afford more space for the larger brake caliper.

The 21" ADV wheel does not have a x-lace so when used with the larger caliper, the spokes will hit the caliper. Sometimes you can just grind off some of the caliper for clearance, but believe you will need to x-lace this wheel to make it work. This would require a custom rim and custom spoke lengths to accomplish.

To consider: if you were to have a x-laced front 21" or 19" rim laced to hub and mounted the 320mm rotor(only way to do it without making mods to the caliper). It should spin freely, but you will have a 320mm rotor on a 21" or 19" front wheel, which is a whole lotta brake for going off-road.

The only way to go to a smaller front rotor would be to make mods to the forks/caliper mount, make your own conversion kit, or go with KTM 640 ADV front forks. There are many conversion kits to go to oversized rotors, but very few if any that go the other way around.

We know of a few people who have the 950SM who put 19" and/or 21" front wheel on the SM and even after the time to make it happen, they regretted it because did not perform well off-road, was too heavy in the front end, etc. And one person was so fed up, he sold the bike, bought an Adventure and got SuMo wheels for it. Then the problem was solved.

Now the 2001 640 SM is not as heavy up front as the 950SM, but similar concepts and likely you will find that it was not worth the trouble.

Hope the above provides some clarity, feel free to let us know if you have other questions.

Thanks,
Chris

Originally Posted by BikerBobber

Hi woody.
What was the answer to this? It never got posted...?
Thanks
Bob

Sent from my mobile.

[BikerBobber]

Originally Posted by woody's wheel works

Thanks for re-posting. We cannot say with complete certainty what all it would take to make the 640 ADV wheel fit on the SuMo front end as we have not done this exact conversion.

What's known(according to parts fiche) is that although the front bearings, seals, and hub are different the axle used is the same. So the front hub with the spacers should "fit" in the front end, but from there some food for thought.

The main reason that an Adv wheel will not just fit on to the SM is because The 17" SuMo wheel is built with a x-lace(meaning from the hub to the rim, the spokes cross over the centerline of the rim) to afford more space for the larger brake caliper.

The 21" ADV wheel does not have a x-lace so when used with the larger caliper, the spokes will hit the caliper. Sometimes you can just grind off some of the caliper for clearance, but believe you will need to x-lace this wheel to make it work. This would require a custom rim and custom spoke lengths to accomplish.

To consider: if you were to have a x-laced front 21" or 19" rim laced to hub and mounted the 320mm rotor(only way to do it without making mods to the caliper). It should spin freely, but you will have a 320mm rotor on a 21" or 19" front wheel, which is a whole lotta brake for going off-road.

The only way to go to a smaller front rotor would be to make mods to the forks/caliper mount, make your own conversion kit, or go with KTM 640 ADV front forks. There are many conversion kits to go to oversized rotors, but very few if any that go the other way around.

We know of a few people who have the 950SM who put 19" and/or 21" front wheel on the SM and even after the time to make it happen, they regretted it because did not perform well off-road, was too heavy in the front end, etc. And one person was so fed up, he sold the bike, bought an Adventure and got SuMo wheels for it. Then the problem was solved.

Now the 2001 640 SM is not as heavy up front as the 950SM, but similar concepts and likely you will find that it was not worth the trouble.

Hope the above provides some clarity, feel free to let us know if you have other questions.

Thanks,
Chris

Thank you Chris ( and Woody)!
You are a wealth of knowledge....shouda asked the question before I bought it...
Anyone want a lightly used SMC..?