DR650SE Index Topic #6- TIRES, TUBES & WHEELS

[Krusty ...]

DR650SE Index Topic #6- TIRES, TUBES & WHEELS

Tires are arguably the most subjective subject in motorcycling, especially, it seems, for dual-sports. A tire model that is hailed by one rider is often spit on by another.
The debate over tubes is usually less heated. Some prefer heavy duty versions, others don't.
I've seen a number of DR pilots who keep two sets of wheels/tires on hand, allowing them to easily convert their bikes to riding on one surface condition to another. Swapping an 18 inch rear is popular for riders heading into lands where 17 inch tires are hard to find. And we've all seen the motards with sticky rubber on wide 17 inch rims.

Let us know all about what keeps you rolling. I know it's a tire discussion, but please keep it civil ... Everyone is entitled to present their evaluation.

[eakins]

i find tck-80 fr and 130-17" mefo explorers rear are the highest mileage 50/50 tire combo on the market. i'll get 6k plus.

i run 100-18" bridgestone heavy duty (3mm) tubes in the rear.

i balance (key to long life) my wheels with mark parnes balancer
http://marcparnes.com/

i just changed my bearings and this pit posse affordable bearing puller
http://pitposse.com/whbereset.html

[foxfire]

Both my wheel sets are a compromise (hell, the DR itself is a compromise). D606 on stock wheels (w/hd tubes) for dirty stuff, Distanzias on 17"/19" (w/standard tubes) for twisty stuff. Tried 17"/17" and didn't like em.

[Krusty ...]

Bump for the day shift...

[Snowy]

The Dunlop 606 is off my shopping list.

2000kms of dirt and tar, 50/50 and it didn't look too bad.

180km of trail riding today and it's toast. It's worn more today than it did when I rode the 2000km trip a few weekends back. I couldn't believe it when I saw it.

Back to the Mitas E09 rear. I'll keep the Dunlop 952 front, it works well.

[justscoutin]

got a set of michelin T63's here now. put the rear one on last night and tried it out today. 120 miles. worked really well on everything I threw at it. way more stable in the loose gravel roads than the mt21 that was on the rear. can't wait to get the front swapped and try it out.

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by foxfire

Both my wheel sets are a compromise (hell, the DR itself is a compromise). D606 on stock wheels (w/hd tubes) for dirty stuff, Distanzias on 17"/19" (w/standard tubes) for twisty stuff. Tried 17"/17" and didn't like em.

Same basic thing here,I like the 19" on the front,Shinko 705's on the 19"/17" set of wheels.
Stock wheels get what ever knobbies I have around,usually a 606 on the back and regular knob on the front.
Ive tried the Mefo's,took em off halfway through their tread life and put em in the basement,rear was about smoked in 2000 miles and never really hooked up on anything. The best thing was they would both break loose and slide on pavemento at full lean.
Not my favorite.

[mr openroad]

Originally Posted by eakins

i find tck-80 fr and 130-17" mefo explorers rear are the highest mileage 50/50 tire combo on the market. i'll get 6k plus.

i run 100-18" bridgestone heavy duty (3mm) tubes in the rear.

i balance (key to long life) my wheels with mark parnes balancer
http://marcparnes.com/

i just changed my bearings and this pit posse affordable bearing puller
http://pitposse.com/whbereset.html

is the TCK front that much better than the MEFO front?

[Xplorr]

I somehow got interested in putting an 18" on my relatively new-to-me DR650; and then as I looked into it, interest became obsession. I was confounded by how easy some made it seem and how little specific info there was on something that was supposed to be so easy. So here is my saga, er.. write up: I hope it helps someone. I have no great understanding of motorcycles, and I make no claims of expertise what so ever, at all. I consulted a friend of mine who owns a shop, and knows WAY more than me, several times to make sure I wasn't doing something unsafe to the bike/wheel. So fairwarning, if you know a lot or bore easily, move on .

I was lead to believe that a dr350 wheel was a 'plug and play' solution to an 18" rear, so I set out to track down a such a wheel. Turns out, this is only partially true. The DR250's and DR350's both had models with hubs compatable to the DR650, but a person really wants the CUSH DRIVE. This is feature is found on 1990-95 DR250SE and 1990-96 DR350SE models (except the 'T' model). The hub part # is 64111-15D00. The non 'SE' model does not have a cush drive, and the rim and spoke set is different (trust me on this). A useful tool I found in my travels was the Babbit's parts site: you can find a part number, and then check what other bikes use that same part number and therefor crosscheck what bikes/years share parts. FWIW, ThumperTalk has the absolute lowest priced Suzuki OEM parts I could find on the web.

So I found a wheel on E-bay, and ordered it up. The spokes had a lot of what I assume was salt corrosion, so I figured I would replace the spokes. On the advice of people smarter than myself, I took a few steps at this point, before reaching for the bolt cutters. First, measure the off-set of the hub/rim on each side to make sure it gets back to the same spec. Second, make note of the [first] four spokes and their positions in the hub/rim, so when you go to re-lace the rim, its that much easier. I used colored zip ties. Third, save a few of each size spokes, for backup-- Suzuki only sells spoke sets (36).

Once I got my wheel, I decided that it needed some cleaning up. After the aforementioned considerations, and spoke removal, I took the hub and rim to friend's shop with a bead blaster, and, well.. bead blasted em. Then I buffed them with a pad on my die grinder. Cleaned em up quite nice it think:





PARTS SIDENOTE: before I bought the 18" wheel, I looked up part numbers for both the 250/350 se wheel and the stock 650se wheel and found that most of the associated parts are interchangable; with the following exceptions: rim (obviously), hub, brake disc, spoke set, and cush bumpers. the other part numbers are the same. So bearings, spacers, the axle, etc. for the 650 work for the 250/350se wheel. I wanted to keep my original wheel mostly intact, in case this whole experiment goes horribly wrong, so for my new wheel I ordered a new spoke set, new sealed wheel bearings, and cush bumpers. Turns out, the cush bumpers on my stock wheel fit better than the ones I ordered for the new wheel. The sealed Moose wheel bearings are part# A25-1256, and are compatible with the DR250se, 350se, 650se.


To summarize, if you found the wheel, didn't need new spokes, and wanted to use your 650 bearings and cush pads, you are go to go, and now about here:


So now we get to the brake disc issue. The disc from the 250/350 wheel is smaller and has different fasteners. 250 Hub:

The mounting holes from each disc match up, but the 650 disc has a recess in both the disc and the hub:


The reason why this is a problem, is that the 650 screws need a recess because of this:


My solution was to shim with washers that fit both the disc recess and fastener shoulder, of these , the 2 serrated lock washers seemed the perfect solution:


So now we look like this:

And this:

And this:


OK, so now the wheel is good to go. The next thing is the tire. I really wanted to try a Mefo super explorer which is a 140/80-18 tire. People are talking about getting 6-9K miles on ktm 990's and the like, so I figure I should be able to get crazy milage on a DR. Also, I really like the tread; very similar to the heidenau K60, which I've tried but crappy mileage.

ANyWho, here's the wrap-up kids if you are still awake: The new wheel/tire raised the rear end 1" and is about 3 lbs heavier than the 17" with a mefo explorer. It looks badass, if that's what you are into. It also raised the gearing. (I had wanted to lower my gearing, even when the stock wheel was on the bike.) I put a 14 tooth front sprocket on to (a) get some more room between the tire and the swing arm, (b) to lower the gearing. Lowering the gearing to a 14t only maybe got me back to stock, now I have to go lower. Also, I need to add some links to my chain if I want to go with a bigger sprocket in the back. Here's some pics of the bike with the 18":







I'll have to put some mileage on this thing to see if the trouble was worth it. Another issue to consider, the 650 rim is wider than the 18", so a 140/80 is a big tire, and a PITA to spoon on and mess with.

Happy trails, Cheers, matt

[BergDonk]

I got a 2.5 x 18" from John Titman Racing here in Oz. He also supplied a set of heavy gauge stainless spokes cut to size, and the rim drilled accordingly too. Bit $xxcy, but simple enough to lace the stock hub, and much stronger. My initial reasoning for doing this was primarily that the big trip to the Simmo and Kimberly happening soon would be accompanying bikes with 18" back wheels only and this would economise on spares, and 18s are a bit easier to come by in outback Oz if required. The raising of the rear 1/2" was good too for ground clearance.

I fitted and balanced a Mitas 130/18 E07 and got 7,000 kms before I scrapped it after a cut carcass and puncture. Maybe 2,000 kms left. It was mated with a balanced MT21 front. I've swapped them for another E07 and 606 front.

The E07 seems to get traction OK most antwhere, but is not real good for side grip in slop. Good compromise though, like the DR. The MT21 just worked too, and would fit one again. Its good that the MT21s are unidirectional too, as they scallop up a bit and need to be turned around. the 606 is directional. we shall see...

Balancing is good, and recommended.

Steve

[plugeye]

another 18 inch conversion here.
dr250 wheel all that was required was new cushions & used the dr250 bolts for the dr650 brake rotor.
brake rotor removal tip: use a torch & impact driver to pull rotor bolts.
they are saturated in loctite.

[Krusty ...]

Bump

[eakins]

17" vrs 18" rear tire which is better????

great read for anyone considering the dr350 rear wheel mod and what you are actually getting yourself into. my commments/opinions start on page 2.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=647911

[trailrider383]

Here are the part numbers for bearings, seals, etc for DR650 1996 and newer. I got the bearings from a bearing supplier. About the same cost as OEM but with seals on both sides so they last longer than the OEM with only one side sealed. And for those of you with 2007 and older versions I added the rear axle lock nut part number so you don't have to mess with the cotter pin. See my other post for part numbers for the rear cush drive bearing and seal.

Front wheel bearings: SKF 6003 2RSJEM
Front wheel seal: 09284-23001
Rear wheel bearings: SKF 6204 2RSJEM
Rear wheel seal brake side: 09283-26019
Lock nut from 2008 and newer: 08319-2118a

[trailrider383]

On my 07 DR650 with 12,300 miles I noticed some slop in the cush drive hub. If you grab the top of the sprocket with one hand and push towards the spokes and the bottom with the other hand and pull out away from the spokes and get a fair amount of movement it may be time to replace the six drive cushions. I took mine apart and looked at the seal in the cush drive hub and you could see that the double lips were wore down almost smooth. You could put thewheel spacer in and there was no drag from the seal. Which means it wasn't sealing like it should. The bearing in the hub is right behind that seal and doesn't have a seal of it's own on that side of the bearing. So any dirt getting by that outside seal is going right into the ball bearings. The bearing felt fine, but I bought a new one that is sealed on both sides anyway. So if you get a lot of play in the cushions it is putting a lot of extra force on that bearing in the hub and then it also wears out the seal. It doesn't really seem possible to me that there would be play if the bearing is still good, but there is. If you think about it when you tighten the axle it all becomes a solid piece. The left side head of the axle tightens up against the swingarm, spacer, inner race of cush hub bearing, spacer between cush hub bearing and left wheel bearing, spacer in wheel hub and right wheel bearing, spacer, swingarm and axle nut.

Here are a couple of pictures of an old cushion compared to a new cushion. New is on the right. The Suzuki part numbers are 09283-34003 for the seal, 64651-32E00 for the cushions x 6, and the double sealed bearing I got from a bearing house is an SKF 6205 2RSJEM made in USA.