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Old 02-14-2011, 01:09 AM   #1
tenorjazz OP
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Mid 60's Bultaco Matador Project

Hey all... I'm in the middle of restoring a mid 60's Bultaco Matador. Using the serial number the bikes been dated from 1964 to 1966, sure would be cool to really know how old it is.

My short term plan is to try and get this bike ready to ride vintage trials this coming summer. The bike actually belongs to a friend of mine, but since I'm building it for him, he said I could ride it for the next couple of years, if I wanted.

I'll try to get some pictures up as I get a little further along on this project

I have another 65' Matador in pieces, that I own, and hope to put it together when I get done with this one. That one I hope to do some trail riding with and maybe use it as my vintage dual sport bike.

Anyway this is my first ever attempt at restoring a motorcycle. I have most of the pieces and the motor was put together, but I had to open it up and clean it out because the main bearings were frozen. My plan is to take every last nut and bolt off, clean, powder coat, paint and polish and repair everything that is broken.

I got the motor completely apart, replaced the bearings, seals, gaskets and so on. Got everything all nice and clean and put it back together... Now it doesn't shift. Actually I don't know if it ever shifted, because it was frozen, but now when I push down or lift up the shifter, it feels like its shifting, but it's not. With the case open I was able to make everything work by hand, but when I put the case together the "wishbone" doesn't seem to turn the shifting wheel inside. Is there anybody out there that knows what I am talking about and might give me some ideas as to what is going on?
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06' VStrom 650 - Fond memories (gone)
06' Suzuki DRZ400 - Wish I could afford two bikes (gone)

=================================

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07' VStrom 650 ABS (Silver)
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:30 AM   #2
stainlesscycle
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what model #?
is this a 5 speed?

if so, you have to be careful about the orientation of the middle shift fork. if you put it in backwards it will shift when the case is open, but not when closed.

did you try turning the output shaft while you shift it to help the dogs engage/shift drum move along? was the shift drum notched or have any damage? did you install the drum so it's lined up with the corrrect notch for the neutral detent?

if it's a 4 speed, i'm not familiar with them.....i know the 4 speed has a selector plate like the old single british bikes....

i'm sure you don't have a pic of the trans assembled with the case halves apart - that would help. when you say wishbone/shifting wheel- that sounds like a 4 speed - 5 speed has shift drum and spring loaded shift pawls
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:22 AM   #3
Tom Threetoes
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If the bike is a mid '60s then it is a 4 speed. I'm thinkin' the 5 speeds didn't come out till the late '60s around 68 or 9. I've got a '66 Matador in the basement . It's waiting till I retire to be rebuilt.
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Old 02-14-2011, 06:51 AM   #4
Wolfgang55
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If this helps then fine. In 1964 I bought a El Monterdairo. (bad spelling)
I lived in Spain at the time. It was a 4 speed, 350 or 360 cc.
The owner of the shop said it was the biggest motor at the time for Bultaco & used a proven transmission. I think that means the trans was an old design & motor was a recent design.
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:00 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang55 View Post
If this helps then fine. In 1964 I bought a El Monterdairo. (bad spelling)
I lived in Spain at the time. It was a 4 speed, 350 or 360 cc.
The owner of the shop said it was the biggest motor at the time for Bultaco & used a proven transmission. I think that means the trans was an old design & motor was a recent design.
the montedero is a right kicker - i would think the trans would be different. maybe not.

as for proven transmission, i think the only thing proven about them is that you are proven to find neutral in between every gear :)
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:40 AM   #6
Bud Tugly
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I had the 175cc version of your bike. It was a 1965 Campera and it was a 4-speed. The transmission must have been straight off a trials bike since it had 3 very low gears with a huge jump up to 4th.

Can't help with your problem since mine ran perfectly for the three years I had it so there was no reason to take it apart. I absolutely loved the tractability and torque of that engine and the suspension and handling were top-notch for the time. You'll enjoy it once you get it sorted out.

My understanding was that Bultaco basically made one engine but used different top ends for the different displacements and changed porting and flywheel weights for the different models.

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Old 02-25-2011, 11:41 PM   #7
darmst6829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenorjazz View Post
Hey all... I'm in the middle of restoring a mid 60's Bultaco Matador. Using the serial number the bikes been dated from 1964 to 1966, sure would be cool to really know how old it is.

My short term plan is to try and get this bike ready to ride vintage trials this coming summer. The bike actually belongs to a friend of mine, but since I'm building it for him, he said I could ride it for the next couple of years, if I wanted.

I'll try to get some pictures up as I get a little further along on this project

I have another 65' Matador in pieces, that I own, and hope to put it together when I get done with this one. That one I hope to do some trail riding with and maybe use it as my vintage dual sport bike.

Anyway this is my first ever attempt at restoring a motorcycle. I have most of the pieces and the motor was put together, but I had to open it up and clean it out because the main bearings were frozen. My plan is to take every last nut and bolt off, clean, powder coat, paint and polish and repair everything that is broken.

I got the motor completely apart, replaced the bearings, seals, gaskets and so on. Got everything all nice and clean and put it back together... Now it doesn't shift. Actually I don't know if it ever shifted, because it was frozen, but now when I push down or lift up the shifter, it feels like its shifting, but it's not. With the case open I was able to make everything work by hand, but when I put the case together the "wishbone" doesn't seem to turn the shifting wheel inside. Is there anybody out there that knows what I am talking about and might give me some ideas as to what is going on?
Hi Tenorjazz,
4 speed Bultaco’s are interesting beasts. The bikes are crudely built with water pipe frame tubes and hand made parts that are literally hammered to fit in a dirt floored factory. The bikes handle amazingly well and are tough as nails. Bultaco made many changes to the clutch assemblies and I have seen at least 3 different versions of clutch’s, all the 4 speed bike have a woodruff key holding the inner clutch hub to the transmission shaft and alternating cork and metal plates. The clutch’s seem impervious to wear and work just fine on the low horsepower motors even when completely worn out. Removing the burs from the plates and inner clutch hub tangs help with smoother operation. The 175cc model 13 motor I raced all last year in my Sherpa S was bought off eBay for $85.00. I changed the primary chain and crankshaft seal and that’s it. I am retiring the motor in favor of a Matador 250cc motor for this next season. The crankshaft assembly is the heart of any two stroke and I would suggest that the “rod kit” as installed in your project should last a good long time in a trials bike. It felt just fine when I examined it. The bike you are building is special. The frame has been heavily modified by Herb (an ex Bultaco semi factory rider) to work better for trials. There are changes to things like the forks and wheels that are outrageous and I hope you appreciate how trick the bike is going to be. I am thrilled you have taken on this project because I have way to many myself and am really happy to see that the bike is going to be used in competition as per Herbs request. See you at the trials!
Dave
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:55 AM   #8
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Hey Dave,

I was wondering if you have been "lurking" around this thread.

It's an amazing opportunity that you have provided me with a bike to learn how to build and ride. I know you are as interested in seeing how the modifications on this bike affect it's performance as I am in building and riding it.

I got the replacement piston ring yesterday, but between the weather being so cold, the limited capacity of heating my shop and having a cold, I probably won't get back to work till later this week. I figure that with cleaning up and installing the rest of the parts, including figuring out what to do with the magneto and carburetor I have a few days left on the motor.

After that I would like to get that "test frame" set up to test the motor. Originally we had talked about cutting up that other Matador frame, but I'm either going to build something from scratch or hook the frame to some kind of stand. I figure when I get done with this bike and my bike, we might be able to use the frame and left over parts to build another. By the third bike, I might have this process figured out and it might be pretty nice

Until I get back to my build I thought I would post some pictures I found while surfing around the web.

















__________________
Life is short, live and enjoy it !!!
=================================

05' BMW R1200GS - If you can only afford one bike...
06' VStrom 650 - Fond memories (gone)
06' Suzuki DRZ400 - Wish I could afford two bikes (gone)

=================================

S.O. Bikes
07' VStrom 650 ABS (Silver)
05' VStrom 650 (Red) - Sold to get one with ABS
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:41 PM   #9
PSchrauber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenorjazz View Post
...

My personal No. 1 street Bultaco, F A N T A S T I C color scheme!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenorjazz View Post

...

Only OK to mint, seat doesent fit, gaps, no logos, ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenorjazz View Post

...

No. 2 street Bultaco, because the color scheme shown in first pic is better!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenorjazz View Post
...



Nice but not first when it come to Bultaco cirt-bikes:


[/QUOTE]

Bultaco Sherpa Kit Campion A model 80 I believe this is my personal No. 2 of the dirt-bike's from Bultaco, a real beauty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenorjazz View Post
...


Also nice a little earlier or may be aSherpa model 80 too, but without the Kit Campion", I'am not so keen on the early ones. A nice bike but not number 1 somewhere between 5 to 3.

Sadly my personal No. 1 is missing the 198b or 199b, (first series build only in 1981 not the later ones that where assembled using the left over spare parts after the bankrupty of Bultaco)



This is the only bike IMHO that can wear the blue white color scheme, sadly the lamp mask is missing and the rear shock is something else then original. Here is one with a lot of scratches but in original used status:

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Old 02-27-2011, 10:07 AM   #10
tenorjazz OP
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Quote:
color scheme shown in first pic is better
Quote:
Also nice a little earlier or may be aSherpa model 80 too, but without the Kit Campion", I'am not so keen on the early ones. A nice bike but not number 1 somewhere between 5 to 3.
Quote:
sadly the lamp mask is missing and the rear shock is something else then original
It's interesting to read PSchrauber's comments about the various bikes pictured here, but I don't understand the comment: "not number 1 somewhere between 5 to 3".

It makes me wonder what other opinions are about restoration or rebuild projects in general.
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Life is short, live and enjoy it !!!
=================================

05' BMW R1200GS - If you can only afford one bike...
06' VStrom 650 - Fond memories (gone)
06' Suzuki DRZ400 - Wish I could afford two bikes (gone)

=================================

S.O. Bikes
07' VStrom 650 ABS (Silver)
05' VStrom 650 (Red) - Sold to get one with ABS
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:28 PM   #11
PSchrauber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenorjazz View Post
It's interesting to read PSchrauber's comments about the various bikes pictured here, but I don't understand the comment: "not number 1 somewhere between 5 to 3".

It makes me wonder what other opinions are about restoration or rebuild projects in general.

There are marks for restauration, but the marks I submitted where more personal. (*)

With somewhere between 3 and 5, I only wnted to express it's not my personal number 1 not even number 2 depending the dirt bikes Bultaco made. In my personal order it comes between 3 and five. There are others that a

Or in my personal view dirt bikes Bultaco:

#01 model 199b amd 198b
#02 model 80 with kit campion
#03
... the other Dirt Bike Bultaco is somewhere here
#05

I probaly have a certain connection or tie wehn it comes to numbers, (has to do with my profession I think, (not so interesting in this matter and therefor not worth here to mention)).

(*) Restauration Marks in Europe, (in short, I will not get lyric here:
1 like new, in running and perfect technical order, (very very hard to get)
2 minor visible used marks, in running and perfect technical order
3 visible used marks, some small corrosian, in running and good technical order but nothing worn out or missing
4 corrosion marks, some parts missing, some technical failures but still running
5 below 4

To my opinons in reatauration this is difficult, here I personally divide the old bike world between street and all purpuse or light enduros and real dirt-bikes that where made for motorsport.

Where patina is great for street and all purpuse ...

You have dificulties to restore them to sporty dirt bikes.

In my opinion sporty dirt bikes will be used to their limits they are build to be competive so all parts and components are build to get out the maximum of speed, power, suspension, weightloss, ...

These bikes are not build to last they are build to win and to be regular maintained, there has to parts swapped, ...

When these machines getting old and are not competive anymore many of them get abused, no maintance, .... just ridden until something breaks down and the bike does not work anymore.

Then it will be stored somewhere until a fool like me comes and try to get that thing running again. If you ant to get it in a good running status than you have to change out so many parts that again it is nearly like new.

With road bikes there are not so many differencies between new machines and yesterday beside the older one's are not so fast, don't break so good and the suspension is also only as good as the old bike accelerate. But still you get from A to B.

(In short I hope this is somehow understandable)
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:55 PM   #12
darmst6829
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Thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenorjazz View Post
It's interesting to read PSchrauber's comments about the various bikes pictured here, but I don't understand the comment: "not number 1 somewhere between 5 to 3".

It makes me wonder what other opinions are about restoration or rebuild projects in general.

My personal favorite Bultaco’s are:
Any SSDT Matador
Model 23 Metralla
Model 10 Sherpa T
Model 48 MK3 Pursang
Model 198 Sherpa T 250cc

Dave
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:59 AM   #13
Dreamdaddy
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Matador

Hey there,

My brother and I had a '67 Bultaco Matador. I remember when my brother first brought it home. Later on he repainted it from red/black to black/yellow and put a accessory Bultaco expansion chamber on it. It was a strange pipe in that it didn't have a stinger and it had metal bumps (weld bumps) inside to act as a baffling method. I was not impressed with the bike as I felt it was under-powered, but it looked real cool!
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:15 AM   #14
tenorjazz OP
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Here's a couple of videos of Dave riding his Trials Bike:





__________________
Life is short, live and enjoy it !!!
=================================

05' BMW R1200GS - If you can only afford one bike...
06' VStrom 650 - Fond memories (gone)
06' Suzuki DRZ400 - Wish I could afford two bikes (gone)

=================================

S.O. Bikes
07' VStrom 650 ABS (Silver)
05' VStrom 650 (Red) - Sold to get one with ABS

tenorjazz screwed with this post 02-26-2011 at 01:14 PM
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:45 PM   #15
jdlothrop
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Bultaco Matador 1969

I am still trying to set the timing on my '69 Matador.

The prescription I am following is this:

1. Set the points through the "window" at .016 at the hi point of the cam lobe.
2. Set the timing by rotating the stator, (pulling and reinstalling of flywheel) until the light on my Bultaco box goes on indicating that the points are open at 3mm + - BTDC.

The points are now precisely gapped at .016 at the highest point of the cam lobe. Checking the light indicates that the points are opening 3 and one half revolutions of the dial too early. So lets see - that would be 100 mm per revolution x 3 plus 50 mm = 350mm. Only off by 347 mm. So I need to rotate the stator plate to back the rubbing block off the cam a distance to allow the flywheel to advance enough to not engage the rubbing block 347 mm too early - not going to happen of course.

All right - so set the points so they are opening significantly less than .016 which allows travel of the flywheel to trvael closer to TDC before the light comes on indicating that the points have opened. Now I have minimal point opening but the timing is close. Adjust the stator 1/4" - 1/2" travel to precision 3mm BTDC.

One problem as I see it is that as the rubbing block wears the point gap gets less which means I don't go very far before I need to take everything apart again and reset points because they were set so close to begin with that they are now closed completely. Do the magnets line up because the stator was rotated - I believe by looking up through the window I can see that at the exacy moment the points open the magnets need to travel 1/4" before optimally located.

Any help would be appreciated.
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