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Old 01-23-2005, 10:27 AM   #1
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KTM Setup Thread...

I've got a bunch of time to kill, so I figured I'd get started on a thread I've been meaning to do for a while.

In my experience, KTM's in general are very responsive to subtle changes in setup. I have only owned 2-stroke 300's, but in my time with these (excellent!) bikes, I've picked up a few things that I think are helpful. Much of this will apply to any KTM, some of it is specific to the 2T's.

Please chime in with your own suggestions... There seem to be a fair number of KTM off-road bikes around!

For lack of any better ideas, I'll just start at the front and work my way back, beginning with generic stuff and then a seperate reply for 2T's.

Front end:

In my experience, the front end is extremely fussy about how it is aligned for smooth suspension actuation. The first thing to do is test stiction- on a flat surface, without touching the brakes, lay your palms flat on the handlebars and push down. If the forks are well set up, you should be able to make a very small movement with minimal force. If the front end is sticky, you'll use quite a bit of force for a fairly large movement. If your forks test out alright, great. Most don't.

To fix this, first loosen everything on the front end except the actual axle, including the axle pinch bolts:



the triple pinch bolts (both top and bottom):



and the upper stem nut, and the bolt in the upper triple clamp that grabs the stem:



Now, with everything finger loose, pump the forks through their stroke a few times. You may observe the fork lowers resettling on the axle, and the triples shifting around to bring the forks parallel. This is often necessary after even a low speed tipover, as the handlebars and wheel can put a lot of torque on the forks in the triples.

Once things are better aligned, start by tightening the axle pinches, then the upper triple pinches and stem, then the lower triple. On the lower triple, overtightening will cause binding in the fork, so be very sparing with torque. I get them both touching, then give them 1/8th turn increments alternately between bolts until there's just enough tension I don't think they will fall out.

If you've done this right, you should be able to get very small suspension movement from the test outlined earlier. The 03 and newer front end is MUCH better than the 00-02 41mm forks as far as alignment goes- that bigger, teflon coated axle really helps.

Other fork setup:

- Bleed the forks regularly via the phillips on top. The WP's build up a lot of pressure fairly quickly, and I believe that frequent bleeding gives better fork action as well as improving fork seal life. My 03 is still on original seals.

- If the seals do start to weep a bit, work the dust wipers down with a flatblade, and then run a piece of paper around inside the fork seal. Often, the seals weap if the wiper edge gets twisted, and you can fix that with paper without replacing the seals. When you reinstall the dust wipers, put a thin line of white lithium grease above the wiper. This seems to help keep outside stuff where it belongs.

- Change the fork oil fairly often. It's a 20-30 minute job, and you'll get all kinds of crap out of your valving that will make the bushings last longer and the action more compliant. Remember to set the oil level between 110 and 130 mm with no oil between the inner and outer walls (pump the outer up and down after bleeding the cartridge to ensure that no oil is between the outer, female slider and the inner, male slider).

And that's about all I can think of for forks.

Front brakes:
- The KTM pads seem to give good performance and wear reasonably well. As a bonus, when you get them hot, you can make them howl like banshees, which is enjoyable in a race for disorienting and passing others.
- Zip tie the brake lever back if you've been using the brakes hard, and any accumlated air will bleed out on it's own overnight.

Front wheel:
- The spokes on 01's and 02's suck, as has been frequently discussed. My 03 has had no issues.
- For mixed terrain and durability, I really like the Kenda Millville front. It's cheap, lasts pretty well, and is awesome in both sand and rocks. I also like the Dunlop 755 front, the Michelin M12 and the Bridgestone 401. The only tire I've disliked was the Pirelli MT44, and not because it performed badly but because I ripped all the side knobs off it in short order.


Can't think what else on the front end. Next installment: chassis bulletproofing, generic to KTM off-road bikes, then 2-stroke specific, then rear end.
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neduro screwed with this post 01-23-2005 at 11:57 AM
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:10 PM   #2
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Great write up, Neduro!

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Old 01-23-2005, 02:27 PM   #3
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Minor data point: LC4 Adventures have had these 48 mm WP forks since '01. Same part number for the axle, I believe.
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Old 01-23-2005, 02:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch
Minor data point: LC4 Adventures have had these 48 mm WP forks since '01. Same part number for the axle, I believe.
Good catch!

I could be wrong, but I thought the 01/02 SX's that had 48mm forks had the little axle, and it wasn't until 03 that anything got the bigger axle. But maybe that's just MX bikes, or maybe I'm just flat wrong. In any case, a minor point, except when buying wheels...
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Old 01-23-2005, 02:52 PM   #5
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Fork oil change

Hey Neduro...

Nice overview of "things to stare at".
If you have the time, and want to put out the effort, can I suggest a more detailed guide or outline of a "quick and easy" fork oil change? I think that quite a few folks would benefit from one.

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Old 01-23-2005, 02:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
Hey Neduro...

Nice overview of "things to stare at".
If you have the time, and want to put out the effort, can I suggest a more detailed guide or outline of a "quick and easy" fork oil change? I think that quite a few folks would benefit from one.

Creep
Sure, except I just did it, so it'll be a little while before I have need again.

Besides, there may be a new orange beast in my garage very soon...
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:55 PM   #7
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Bump for the KTM RFS (RTS?) riders...
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neduro
Good catch!
I could be wrong, but I thought the 01/02 SX's that had 48mm forks had the little axle, and it wasn't until 03 that anything got the bigger axle. But maybe that's just MX bikes, or maybe I'm just flat wrong. In any case, a minor point, except when buying wheels...
Yea, the ADV got the 48mm goods a year (at least) ahead of some of the others.

Nice thread, btw. I'm gonna share it with my 300EXC flogging bud. He loves 'em and here's his latest..



He's a big guy, REALLY fast, and has everything valved & sprung to suit. A real setup and maintenance freak. Even cleans it madly in between the dirt/mud dunkings. Anyway, what a great motorcycle.

Another bud has it really bad. Among other brands, he owns a 200exc, 450exc & Duke. You never know what he's gonna show up on, but he's another excellent enduro rider who's ate up with the details of good setup. You'd love a garage session over here!

FWIW, I think I'd prefer the 200 over all of 'em for tight woods, just 'cause I'm least likely to get maimed with 100 less cc.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:12 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Arch
FWIW, I think I'd prefer the 200 over all of 'em for tight woods, just 'cause I'm least likely to get maimed with 100 less cc.
Agree. If I wasn't a fatass (195 lbs) and didn't live at elevation, I'd be on a 200. Shoot, I'd be on a 200 if I just lived down lower- they have all the power anyone needs at reasonable elevations. My riding is mostly between 9 and 12k feet, though, and they are short of breath up there. So is the 300, but less so.

I'm sure I'd enjoy a garage session down there as well. You guys ever come to the TESCEC Enduros? I hit some of the North Texas ones...
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Old 01-23-2005, 02:33 PM   #10
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Part 2: Chassis Bulletproofing

I don't know exactly what of this will translate to the LC4's, but most of it applies to the RFS 4T's and all of it to the 2T's...

Skidplate: The Devol skidplate is far and away the one of choice for the 2T's. Rather than micky-mouse hooks, it uses a piece of flatbar across the framerails with holes drilled (sort of visible below). Seems to stay in place very well, provides good protection, and not too pricey.



Stay away from both the KTM hardparts plate, and the enduro engineering plate. Both are undersized and made from thin material.

Enduro Engineering sells a kit to relocate the CDI out of harms way, under the tank. In it's original position on the frame near the steering head, it is vulnerable to crash damage in odd scenarios, and if the steering stop bolt ever vibrates out, the forks will hit it and ruin it. And putting it under the tank allows you to dial in some more steering lock. Money well spent.



The front brake line will cut into the clutch line, if given the chance.



My solution is low tech- I just put some fuel line around the clutch line and keep an eye on it.



I also wrap the brake line/odo wires in some of that expandable plastic sheath (visible in the photo above) to protect against chafing. Seems to work.

The shock location on the 2003/2004 bikes flat out sucks:



My boot rubs heavily enough to wear through the shock body in about 1500 miles. GRRRRR! Had to buy a new shock:



On the plus side, I got one off Mike Lafferty's bike right when he broke himself, and it's magic. Whatever special sauce they use seems to have made it into this thing... solution is to buy the e-line carbon guard for $40. No issues since installing one.

Speaking of e-line, their carbon pipe guards are the best solution I've found. I've tried both Pro Circuit and FMF Gnarly pipes, and prefer stock for the way it makes power... and the e-line guard has protected it in some horrific hits.

Now for a big one. All KTM's I've seen have a thermostat housing right behind the radiators like this:



On this bike, it hasn't done much, but in many cases the corner will rub into the radiator over time and cause leakage. My solution is to safety wire it back to the tank mounting point, so that it just can't QUITE touch. This is worth a look, on both 2 and 4 strokes!

Speaking of, that plastic "Y" fitting on top of the motor is a weak link. Whenever you do a top end, inspect it for cracks or other signs of wear. If it breaks, you'll have no coolant in a hurry and it's a good way to ruin your motor and your day.

The kickstand is another weak point, in that it is not designed to bear any load more than the bike, and it's easy to break the mounting bolt.



My suggestions: loctite the bolt, and keep an eye that it stays tight. If it loosens, you'll break it off very easily. Put tri-flow (bicycle teflon lube) on the kickstand to keep the action free- one application will last quite a while. Finally, use the little rubber strap provided to hold the kickstand up when not in use- my experience has been that the bolt will not tend to loosen if the kickstand is supported by the strap.

Unlike Jap bikes, my KTM swingarm pivots have always been reasonably well greased from the factory. The Heim Joint and the upper shock mount needle bearing will eventually wear out, but the original KTM parts seem to last well and are not unreasonably priced IMHO. On very high mileage bikes, the mudflap hanging down in front of the rear wheel will begin to eat into the swingarm aluminum- several companies make guards to help prevent this.

The Enduro Engineering Sharkfin (brake disk guard) is cheap and effective. Good insurance for the rear disk. The bolts like to vibrate out, so loctite them (or weld the bastard on if you want to be sure...).

Can't think what else for the chassis... Dirtrider will no doubt be correcting me here shortly...
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:39 PM   #11
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2 stroke specific stuff...

First, let me start with why ride a 2-stroke, and why a 300 in particular.

1) Reliability and durability and cost of running: To my knowledge, there is no other bike that is as performance oriented as the KTM 2-strokes (light weight, premium components) that has anywhere near the reliability they show. I ride a lot, and I ride pretty hard, and they take it like they were designed for it (because they were). No monkeying around with unrefined systems, the bottom ends last forever (a friend, Fast with a capital F, has a 2000 380 e/xc that he rides as much as I ride mine. He's done a top end a year and has yet to see the inside of the bottom end).

Doing a top end on the 2-strokes costs about $150-250, depending on OEM or aftermarket piston, and takes a couple of hours (or 20 minutes if you are an ISDE racer). The modern 4-strokes, especially those from Japan, have a shorter top-end life than the KTM's do, and the job costs at least $500. Not to mention, if something goes wrong on the 4-strokes, you're into $1500 by the time you start replacing everything that needs it... 2-strokes have about 4 moving parts, so it's pretty hard to break them.

So, given that brake pads, chains/sprockets/tires are the same as anything else, the overall cost of owning and racing a 2T KTM is basically cheaper than anything else out there. The 2T Jap MX bikes are just not as durable- trannies, bottom ends, and top ends are all underbuilt compared to the KTM stuff (though certainly workable).

2) Weight and rotating mass: The 2 strokes are light and they feel it. The 4 strokes are heavier and try to disguise it... but what they can't disguise is all that rotating mass. Step back and forth from a 2 stroke to a 4, and you'll instantly feel the difference of having a several pound gyro (crank and valvetrain) spinning at reasonable RPM's.

3) It's damn fun. It is zippy and playful and makes you feel like a hero, even when you are a gear high or a gear low, even when you miss the apex and have to pick it up with your foot, even when you stall it. It starts easily, always, and the motor can be ridden aggressively at the start of a race or chilled out at the end of a long day of trailriding, and it's happy either way.



:rabia

Now then, on to setup:

The weak point of the motor, for sure, is the exhaust mounting. It's mickey mouse and it's basically impossible to avoid all leakage:



There are a couple of tricks to minimizing it, though:
- Clean everything really well with carb cleaner, which is the only thing that cuts spooge very well.
- Check pipe alignment- if one side is cocked out, it will never mate well. Use a broom handle inserted into the pipe to "convince" it to go straight.
- Line the pipe with hi-temp RTV sealant before assembly. Watch it come out the exhaust for the next 2 rides.
- Double spring it if you can't get it hung quite right.

As I said earlier, I prefer the stock pipe on the 00-03 300 motor to any alternative I've found. And the eline pipe guard is the ticket for protecting it.

The stock silencer is good, and when fresh, will test at around 89 dba (which is quiet!). I also have an FMF Q, which is a touch louder... but offers less leverage in the case of an "issue" for tweaking the exhaust system. And I think it looks better. I run them both, and can tell no power difference between them.

Carefully clean the junction between the expansion chamber and the exhaust pipe. Assemble with no sealants or zip ties on the rubber gasket- they don't seem to help. If it is a good fit on both ends, it shouldn't leak. If you have to torque it into place, be prepared to spend some time cleaning. DAMHIK.

The KTM's are unique in coming with a jetting chart. It's conservative, but not overly so. If I have a debate for which box I fit into (it's a temp/elevation matrix), I err to the lean. This will be a good starting point and you won't seize the bike. Some folks like to go to a #7 slide cutaway and run the N85D/E needles, some folks run some of the newer needle tapers... I find that the KTM book gets me close and leaves me confident that I won't blow it up, and that's worth something. Summer jetting for HIGH elevation (8k +) is NOZI/3rd, 40/162, about 1 turn on the A/S. Winter is NOZH/3rd, 45/175, 1 turn. Whenever I rejet (which is a lot) I write what's in there with a sharpie on the side of the float bowl. It'll wash off with gas and it means you never remember wrong and leave summer high elevation jetting in for a winter ride at sea level.

The OEM Mahle Forged Pistons last a long damn time. Wiseco Cast pistons are a bit lighter and rev easier. Note that KTM provides 2 different sizes of cylinders- they are very close, but your original piston will have a "1" or "2" stamped in the head. If you go OEM, get a matching piston. If you go aftermarket, they aren't precise enough to care.

I have been running no-toil products in the air cleaner for a long time with good success. I'm sure the petro stuff would have worked fine too, but no-toil is much nicer to work with.

I have an enduro engineering clutch slave protector. It's got a lot of marks from chain slap. No idea if any of those slaps would have hurt the stock unit... but I'm glad I didn't find out. Another $20 well spent.

The bike comes with a crappy guard between the chain and tire, which falls off shortly after you start riding the bike. Preemptively take it off, and use some silicon to seal the holes so you don't fill your swingarm with water and sand.
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Old 09-15-2006, 07:31 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by neduro
First, let me start with why ride a 2-stroke, and why a 300 in particular.
Since someone bumped this thread, I went back through, and thought I'd update my thinking on the 300.

My last go-round, I couldn't get a 300 from the dealer I wanted to work with, so I went to a 250 (2005 250 e/xc). I've really enjoyed it, and it has definitely helped me become a faster rider.

The 300 is a lazy man's bike- it torques over everything. The 250 has great lug, but to really get with the program, you've gotta shift and clutch a bit more. I've read, and I believe (though I haven't verified) that the 250 makes more HP than the 300, just because it revs further and keeps pulling. For riding at elevation, I wish it had a little more spunk stock... so I put an SX piston and head in it and it's perfect. The motor is fantastic- it makes it easy to save energy, but it will really move if you ask it to.

The 04 onward motor is definitely an improvement. It's smoother, and the smaller carb makes jetting much easier- I can count the number of times my 01 or 03 300's were jetted perfectly on one hand. The 250 always is, and I never have to mess with it save summer/ high country vs. winter/ utah.

The 05/06 chassis is also much nicer- for whatever reason, it handles better and is more compliant than my 03 ever was. All those subtle changes add up eventually.

On my 250, it took about 10 oil changes before it quit dirtying up the tranny oil. Now, with 2 seasons on it, it's as perfect as it's ever been- it shifts perfectly, the chassis remains tight, and I love it.

One last setup note. I recently switched to Emig 22mm offset triples, and they are an improvement overall. The bike doesn't fight me as much in rocks and rubble- it stays on line easier. However, while there is a clear difference on trails and it's an improvement, there also seems to be a difference on high speed fire road stuff, and I'm not sure the front end is as confident in those situations. At some point, it gets hard to tell what's in the brain, what's in the conditions, and what's the bike setup.

Which brings me back to the original point... these bikes are great out of the box, and I'd be better off buying gas and tires and just riding it than worrying about these other "improvements".
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Old 09-15-2006, 07:45 AM   #13
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Have you ridden an 07' 250 XC-W yet Ned? Unreal, it is going to take a chunk out of the 300 market. It lugs like nothing I have ridden, then just keeps on singing. It makes my 03' a total dog. If you have not ridden one, don't.
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Old 09-15-2006, 08:16 AM   #14
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Have you ridden an 07' 250 XC-W yet Ned? Unreal, it is going to take a chunk out of the 300 market. It lugs like nothing I have ridden, then just keeps on singing. It makes my 03' a total dog. If you have not ridden one, don't.
I rode an 06 250 XC that was very much like my bike... is the 07 much different?
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Old 09-15-2006, 08:22 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by neduro
I rode an 06 250 XC that was very much like my bike... is the 07 much different?
Yeah, it seams to pull lower quite well. I guess they redesigned the cylinder, but I thought it was just for weight, I guess not. It finds traction really well and the suspension is even better. I was rather impressed. Other than that it is the same.
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