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Old 04-29-2012, 08:06 AM   #1
ML WYDELL OP
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Tube tire to tubeless

Is it possible to get a wheel to run tubeless tires on an airhead, non GS? I've been told that some powder coat snowflakes and then run tubeless but have not seen it. Is this possible? A mod I've been thinking about and wondering if anyone has done it. Thanks.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:27 AM   #2
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I have seen it numerous times but I have not actually done it to snowflakes. I used K bike stems in my LS but you have to machine a flat on the rim for the O-ring to seal. Most just use conversion stems with big rubber donuts.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:48 PM   #3
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I was under the impression that they were not sanctioned by the factory as suitable. Snowbum who is actually helpful had an article that might be worth reading.
PART I...the rims....

1. Except for later model Airheads that came from the BMW factory with tubeless tires (BMW phased-in the tubeless rims, generally from 1985, but phasing-in was not generally completed for several years, and it depended on which model), all others came with tubes and the early rims (that is, pre-tubeless) have an industry standard type of rim shape/contour called WM-2. This is a particular shape of primarily the inside area of the rim. The WM2 shape does not have the 5 degree angle increase of the tubeless rims on the bottom area and side area, that the tire bead rests against. The WM2 shape has a contour in the middle; and, angles outward from the middle, and where the tire bead contacts, that is and was for use with tubes. Some BMW rims have 'safety rims'...which help to keep the tire onto the rim, and NOT allow the tire to move towards the interior. Another commonly used rim shape for use with tubes is the CP contour, which was also used in some later BMW models. This shape has a more pronounced drop center, and the horizontal part that the bead ending fits has a 4 degree slope.... that slope is OPPOSITE the TUBELESS rim shape!!

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/section6.htm
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:18 PM   #4
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Lots of guys run tubless on BMW tubless rims but our rims were not designed for tubless applications and it is not generally advised. Some folks do and most don't. After being advised by a long time expert in the wheel business (Sandy Kosman) to stay with tubes, I've taken to that advice religously.

This is one of those decisions that you'll have to make for yourself but the real question is: "Do you feel lucky?"
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Hawk Medicine screwed with this post 04-29-2012 at 01:25 PM
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mymindsok View Post
lots of guys run tubless on bmw tubless rims but our rims were not designed for tubless applications and it is not generally advised. Some folks do and most don't. After being advised by a long time expert in the wheel business (sandy kosman) to stay with tubes, i've taken to that advice religously.

This is one of those decisions that you'll have to make for yourself but the real question is: "do you feel lucky?"
+1
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:37 PM   #6
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As often is the case, that article starts off with a number of errors. Namely R65LS wheels came with tubes and have tubeless rims.

Excepting rare catastrophic circumstances, tubeless tires are safer for letting the air out a lot slower if at all regardless of having a tubeless safety rim or not. Remember that once the air is out of a tube, a tube type tire would be better off with a tubeless safety rim as well. In those super rare situations where your tire is off the rim and/or your rim is broken and the tube isn't pinched letting the air out anyway, it is safer to have a tube. Nails, screws, wire, the stuff that I have been getting flats with my whole life, it's safer to have tubeless.
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Old 04-29-2012, 05:46 PM   #7
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Do you feel lucky? I ask myself that whenever I am riding a bike with tubes. Half the "flats" I have had with tubeless were not a flat at all until I pulled the screw or whatever out of the tire to repair the puncture. You don't need near as much luck with that safety feature.

I know tons of people that agree with me. One of my friends use to work for Dunlop here in the states and is still good friends with recently retired Jim Allen of US Dunlop Racing. That's an instant "in" at the Nationals! At any rate, he has a Yamaha, a Moto Guzzi, and a BMW with tube type mags converted to tubeless for the same reasons my dad converted my tube type mags to tubeless when I was a kid: Safety. That and it's cheaper not having to put a tube in. And it's easier to change the tires. And it's much easier to repair most flats.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:36 PM   #8
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SS:

There are tons of people on either side of this discussion but that dosnt change a thing.

Running tubes or tubeless is a personal decision and theres no really "right" answer, no matter what anyone says.




To quote Aleister Crowley, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mymindsok View Post
SS:

There are tons of people on either side of this discussion but that dosnt change a thing.

So there shouldn't be a problem bringing up people on my side? You did so I thought the discussion would be more fair if I did as well.

Running tubes or tubeless is a personal decision and theres no really "right" answer, no matter what anyone says.

So that shouldn't keep me from trying to shed some light on the subject?




To quote Aleister Crowley, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
The whole of the law is on your side, not mine but that doesn't make it right either.

That didn't come out right but I hope you get my point?

supershaft screwed with this post 04-29-2012 at 11:00 PM
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:58 PM   #10
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Uhmmm....

So now your editing my posts by inserting your crap within the quote box?

You must be recovering from your accident, because youre up to your old tricks again!
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:01 AM   #11
supershaft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mymindsok View Post
Uhmmm....

So now your editing my posts by inserting your crap within the quote box?

You must be recovering from your accident, because youre up to your old tricks again!
People do that to quotes of myself all the time and now I know how and why. Old tricks? I said that didn't come out right. I have never done that before. Although my responses are within your quote box, at least I didn't change what you had already said. I have had people do that to me more than a couple of times. It's you that is up to your old tricks mms. First in your discussion of the topic stating after I make some good points that it doesn't matter what anybody says anyway and now this. Off topic again and on to your personal opinion of me personally. Do you have anything to add about the tube/tubeless debate? I am trying to learn not to respond to your wine but . . . . At least you are talking about the quote box and not the quotes themselves. I don't like it when people do that to me either. That's why I mentioned it in my thread. I'll learn how to do that right before I do it again. Now . . . Back to tires and tubes or more wine?
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:39 AM   #12
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SS, Are you saying something along the lines of:

With a tube type tyre when you get a puncture the pressure drops immediately and little time to react.
With a tubleless tyre on a correct rim for a tubeless tyre it will go down slowly and you have more time to react.
With a non tubeless mag even thought it it is not designed for a tubeless tyre its going to give you more time to react than if you had a tube?
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
SS, Are you saying something along the lines of:

With a tube type tyre when you get a puncture the pressure drops immediately and little time to react.
With a tubleless tyre on a correct rim for a tubeless tyre it will go down slowly and you have more time to react.
With a non tubeless mag even thought it it is not designed for a tubeless tyre its going to give you more time to react than if you had a tube?
If the air comes out at all, yes that is what I am saying. That and the tubeless safety rim is only going to help whether you have a tube or not in rare, extreme cases. It makes no difference in the vast majority of flats or events I guess you could call them when you start talking about a safety rim's advantages. Sure, a tube can help is some rare cases but they makes things a lot worse most every other time. There are a lot of good reasons why so many machines that use to use them don't anymore.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:24 AM   #14
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Thanks for the responses guys. If I go the tubeless route I will have to get a proper rim with the safety lip and have it laced to the hub. Repairing tubeless is less time consuming and a bit easier. Just trying to keep it simple.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ML WYDELL View Post
Thanks for the responses guys. If I go the tubeless route I will have to get a proper rim with the safety lip and have it laced to the hub. Repairing tubeless is less time consuming and a bit easier. Just trying to keep it simple.
From what I have seen most new spoke rims are tubeless safety rims.
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