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Old 11-21-2012, 04:23 PM   #1
Rider351 OP
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Cool2 Garmin Montana or zumo?

OK, GPS Pros....
Replacing my 60CSX. Too small to read.
I ride 50% on road and 50% off road - 1200 GS - so not super complex single tracks.

Goal is to use the 24K topo I have and be able to locate the dirt roads and details.

Advice? zumo too fragile?

Price not the issue - just want the right GPS that I can see!

60 CSX will be sold on ADVRIDER soon....and a good deal

Many thnaks gang

Tom
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:57 PM   #2
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I just sold a Zumo to go to a Montana. The Zumo was a great unit. Easy to see while riding and had no issues. The blue tooth to my helmet was great. I used it on my Vstrom. The only reason I switched is that I wanted to upgrade my 76CSX to a larger screen to use on both of my KTM's for offroad use. You can't load tracks on the Zumo, only routes. A lot of my offroad riding uses tracks. So, if being able to use tracks is important to you, get the Montana. BTW, this was on a Zumo 550. I don't know if any of the newer Zumo's have the ability to use tracks.
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socaltrailrider View Post
I just sold a Zumo to go to a Montana. The Zumo was a great unit. Easy to see while riding and had no issues. The blue tooth to my helmet was great. I used it on my Vstrom. The only reason I switched is that I wanted to upgrade my 76CSX to a larger screen to use on both of my KTM's for offroad use. You can't load tracks on the Zumo, only routes. A lot of my offroad riding uses tracks. So, if being able to use tracks is important to you, get the Montana. BTW, this was on a Zumo 550. I don't know if any of the newer Zumo's have the ability to use tracks.

The ZUMO 665 you can load tracks on it I have done it. I have the ZUMO 665 I use between my KTM 990 and GS on road and off works good for me.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:10 PM   #4
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Garmin Montana or Zumo

Good afternoon Tom (Rider351),

Excellent question and a common one. Both the Garmin Zumo 660/665LM and Garmin Montana 66x are excellent platforms. Advice about these specific devices can be found on the ADV Rider forum here in the "GPS Ready Room". You can also find information about how they interact with routes, tracks, map creation software and external mapping product cards there.

Both will serve you well and are perfect for your bike. Both handle routes and tracks with ease and are easy to read. You will be happy with the upgrade in either instance. Since you are splitting your riding, the bluetooth on the Zumo 660/665LM will be a nice addition and the Zumo model lines come with the fuel management dashboard.

Given that you have the BMW R1200, you would want to look at the stock BMW Navigator IV. Specs on that device can be found directly on Garmins website here. The device can be purchased directly from your authorized BMW motorcycle dealer or an authorized Garmin dealer. Price will be $899.00. For that price, you receive the custom cradle for the R1200 and its generally designed for that bike model range. Durability is not an issue.

The Garmin Zumo 660/665 and the Navigator IV are the same platforms but the Nav IV is made for BMW as an OEM product.

If you want to save some money by not having the custom BMW cradle and buttons, the Zumo 660/665LM will be the next best selection.

If you believe that you will do more off road riding than anything else, then the Garmin Montana 66x is definitely the best solution. Ensure that you purchase the City Navigator North America 2013.3 map with it so you can use it as a street device. You'll need the corresponding AMPS mount and RAM handlebar kit to mount it to your bike. You'll also want to buy a screen protector from Zagg (modify it for the Montana by trimming) or the OEM covers from Garmin. The Zagg is clearer but the Montana OEM comes in a three pack and is acceptable. Cost negligible.

Both devices will handle your 24k topo card that is routable. You can look at additional cards here.

Good luck with your selection.

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Old 11-29-2012, 12:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River Pilot View Post
Good afternoon Tom (Rider351),

Excellent question and a common one. Both the Garmin Zumo 660/665LM and Garmin Montana 66x are excellent platforms. Advice about these specific devices can be found on the ADV Rider forum here in the "GPS Ready Room". ...
WOW! River Pilot your thread is quite informative, thank you!

I am definitely looking to replace my 60CSx with the Montana 600/650/650t over the Zumo 66x. It seems that most of the firmware issues have been fixed now. My use is 70% off road and the only drawback for me is for some trips for onroad use - the lack of bluetooth.

Bluetooth:
However I don't have a pressing need for it but later if it seems important I plan on using the Sena SR10 bluetooth 2-way radio adapter. It costs $150 and you can connect multiple inputs (including a phone via bluetooth and) notable a wired Aux In from the Montana audio out jack, then it connects to your headset via bluetooth. There are threads talking about how it solves the various bluetooth profile connection problems so you will hear high quality stereo music from your phone yet get instructions from your GPS as they occur and override.

Or because I sometimes want to have my wife and I hear the same music source when wearing headsets (when in our UTV sideBySide in our case), the other option is the Sena SM10 dual stream stereo bluetooth transmitter for that purpose. It costs $110 and has multiple wired inputs for Audio in (iphone etc) and Aux in from the GPS so you can use the audio out jack from the Montana as an input to it. It will send the same source to 2 headsets via bluetooth. The only drawback is the smartphone has to connect with a cable, not wireless.

It's a little pricey but I consider it a $100-150 option to a Montana and it doesn't seem so bad compared to the Zumo 66x, except it needs a power cable connection of its own. Apparently it is quite intelligent and works well. I might be wrong on some of the description, if so please correct me as I'm just starting to research it.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:40 AM   #6
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Tom (Rider351):

If you are a 50% road/50% offroad rider, I recommend to take a good look at the Montana series GPS units.

I made the move to a Montana 650 from a Garmin Zumo 550. The Zumo 660/665 was my other option. Other than losing a couple of road-related features, like the Detour function and the ability to search for points-of-interest along my route while I ride, I have had no regrets.

Some features of the Montana that I especially like:
  • The ability to use tracks. I dislike my carefully planned routes being changed by a GPS. Tracks can be viewed and used to navigate, just like a route.
  • The ability to use multiple map sets, on the fly. CNNA, OSM, Topos, IMG maps made from your own GPX files -- the sky is the limit.
  • The ability to customize the Montana's screens.
  • The ability to swap the standard battery to three AAA batteries (something I have not had to do, but it's nice to know that I can).
  • A built in 5 megapixel camera (on the 650 and 650T), so you are never without one.

I have had no regrets with my choice. We have a very helpful community of Montana owners who can address your questions here under the humongous New Garmin Montana thread.

By the way, there is a good "Black Friday" sale currently underway at GPSCity.com (where I purchased my Montana). There you can currently buy the Montana 650 for $450 ($505 with City Navigator NT, which you will need for detailed road maps).

Send me a PM, if you have specific questions. Good luck with your decision.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:10 PM   #7
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Note that the Montana does not have bluetooth, but the Zumo 660, 665, & 350LM do.

The Zumo 660 and 665 can display tracks; the 350LM cannot (except to backtrack on its own track). In my view, this makes the Zumo 350LM the most street-oriented and least versatile of them all.

So, if you need bluetooth AND visible tracks, it is Zumo 660 or 665. If you do not need bluetooth, I think the Montana offers more versatility than a Zumo.

Just my humble $0.02 - I am no expert.
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:50 PM   #8
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In my view, this makes the Zumo 350LM the most street-oriented and least versatile of them all.
.
Are you disappointed in your 350?
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:16 PM   #9
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Are you disappointed in your 350?
Well, I don't think it represents as high a level of value for money spent when compared to a Zumo 66x or a Montana. It is an excellent GPS with a big screen and a fast processor and I have followed some pretty long (for me) routes on it without problem. It needs a "no dashboard" option, and the ability to display tracks other than "track back."

This does not mean that I am not expending energy trying to get Garmin to get more features in via updates. I don't think it would take more than a couple of updates to bring 66X options in to make it as good a value.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:39 PM   #10
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Zumo 550

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Murray View Post
Tom (Rider351):

If you are a 50% road/50% offroad rider, I recommend to take a good look at the Montana series GPS units.

I made the move to a Montana 650 from a Garmin Zumo 550. The Zumo 660/665 was my other option. Other than losing a couple of road-related features, like the Detour function and the ability to search for points-of-interest along my route while I ride, I have had no regrets.

Some features of the Montana that I especially like:
  • The ability to use tracks. I dislike my carefully planned routes being changed by a GPS. Tracks can be viewed and used to navigate, just like a route.
  • The ability to use multiple map sets, on the fly. CNNA, OSM, Topos, IMG maps made from your own GPX files -- the sky is the limit.
  • The ability to customize the Montana's screens.
  • The ability to swap the standard battery to three AAA batteries (something I have not had to do, but it's nice to know that I can).
  • A built in 5 megapixel camera (on the 650 and 650T), so you are never without one.

I have had no regrets with my choice. We have a very helpful community of Montana owners who can address your questions here under the humongous New Garmin Montana thread.

By the way, there is a good "Black Friday" sale currently underway at GPSCity.com (where I purchased my Montana). There you can currently buy the Montana 650 for $450 ($505 with City Navigator NT, which you will need for detailed road maps).

Send me a PM, if you have specific questions. Good luck with your decision.
I have the Zumo 550, and it has been rated the best overall motorcycle GPS. A lot of offroad rough riding has been done with the 550. Plus you can load tracks, but switching the tracks to routes is much easier. Note the Zumo does not, I repeat does not change your routes that you input into the GPS if you don't allow it to in the settings. I know what the person who posted above is talking about, but you can redo the setting so it will not change your route. I use Garmin Base camp or Map Source along with Google Earth to input routes. The KML files are easily converted to GPX format, and as long as you have less than 500 points per route (very easy to do) it is able to be uploaded on the Zumo 550.

Tried the bluetooth, and was not to impressed with it. I did not try the bluetooth helmet, just bluetooth earbuds. The sound quality was horrible. The pricier helmets might be better with the blue tooth built in. Blue tooth to me does not have nearly as good as sound quality as wired, and I used wired earbuds. You can buy an attachment for the 550 were you can have XM radio and it does play MP3's. I had a 32GB SD card in the ZUMO, and somehow it got fried, and I believe it was my fault and not the ZUMOs fault.
I have never seen nor used the Montana, nor any of the other ZUMO models. I did research when I bought the 550 back in April, and all the research indicated that the 550, although a pretty old model, is still the most popular model of GPS made specifically for motorcycles. You can still use it in a car, or even hiking if needed, because it has a long battery life.

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Old 11-30-2012, 02:43 PM   #11
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Garmin Montana or zumo?

Hello Snooker,

Your welcome and happy to assist.

Yes, the Montana is an excellent device and the addition of CNNT 2013.3 Part # 010-11269-00 or newer will allow you to navigate the street. You'll need the AMPS cradle Part # 010-11654-01, suggest the screen protector Part # 010-11654-05 and possibly a case to protect it all Part # 010-10117-02

Regarding the Bluetooth connectivity - This is an area which is less specific and is a user choice. With all of the different bikes, helmets, headsets and phones, it's important to scan available products and then drill to a specific product based on price and feature set that will work for a user.

In the cruiser market, a "Breakout Box" is usually the best choice as it can be hardwired, key switched and offers a stable platform for additional items and features. Vendors such as Autocom offer these items. The Autocom Super Pro Automatic is a good example

Sena SM-10 - We have contacted our resources at Sena and they have advised that it is the exact device you would need based on your requirements. The 3.5 jack from the Garmin Montana 650 would be inserted into the device (hardwired) and the other two pairs (maximum allowed per specs) via Bluetooth would be for the phone and other helmet headset. The cost is reasonable compared to a breakout box.

Good luck with your new GPS.

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Old 11-30-2012, 03:37 PM   #12
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My 550 is not happy with tracks- it will randomly re-route (yes, even with auto-recalculate off) and is nowhere near as handy offroad as my 60csx. Something about converting tracks to routes.

Are the newer Zumos (660/665) better with tracks?

Thanks.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:55 PM   #13
River Pilot
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Garmin Montana or Zumo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeName View Post
My 550 is not happy with tracks- it will randomly re-route (yes, even with auto-recalculate off) and is nowhere near as handy offroad as my 60csx. Something about converting tracks to routes.

Are the newer Zumos (660/665) better with tracks?

Thanks.

Good afternoon FakeName,

Yes, the Zumo 66x units handle tracks with aplomb as well as other GPS related tasks. Suggest reviewing this ADV Rider post.

Good luck.

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Old 12-04-2012, 08:20 PM   #14
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River Pilot

I don't mean to hijack a thread here, but I was wondering River Pilot, if you could answer a Montana GPS question for me?
I was thinking of putting it on my xmas list, and it would be dual purpose as in on the bike (DRZ400), riding 50/50 terrain and in the car...just riding on roads. Would I want city Nav? Don't they come with a base map? Can I search points of interest, like If i need to find the closest repair shop while on the road or trail? What benefit do you have with the TOPO map? Thank you. Sorry for the hijack.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:43 PM   #15
River Pilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwelch360 View Post
I don't mean to hijack a thread here, but I was wondering River Pilot, if you could answer a Montana GPS question for me?
I was thinking of putting it on my xmas list, and it would be dual purpose as in on the bike (DRZ400), riding 50/50 terrain and in the car...just riding on roads. Would I want city Nav? Don't they come with a base map? Can I search points of interest, like If i need to find the closest repair shop while on the road or trail? What benefit do you have with the TOPO map? Thank you. Sorry for the hijack.

Hello Rwelch360,

Sure, we can go ahead you get you some answers.

The Montana 6xx series come with different setups based on what configuration you buy. A good way to start is to bring up the Montana here and then compare the three Montana devices with each other.

Here are the answers to your questions:

1. Would I want city Nav? Yes, you will want and need City Navigator 2013.3 or newer. Suggest purchasing the Lifetime Maps retail card (Part # 010-11269-00) to ensure you always have the latest maps on the device.

2. Don't they come with a base map? Yes, limited at best and only used for context and reference in major areas of the world. You will only see major towns as dots and major freeways that aren't necessarily accurate in their detail level. Designed to allow you to get to major roads or towns but that's it. According to Garmin, "MapSource World Map software provides base-level map detail for the world. The base map detail includes city and political boundaries, major interstates, some highways and basic outlines of geographic features such as lakes and rivers."

3. Can I search points of interest, like If i need to find the closest repair shop while on the road or trail? Yes, when you purchase City Navigator. The Garmin basemap does not included searchable POI's.

4. What benefit do you have with the TOPO map? Excellent question. This is the one discussed most. Here are the details.
a. 24K USA Topos are "Routable" which means your GPS can provide "turn by turn directions". 100K Topos are not.
b. The detail of the elevations and 3D shading of a topo product are helpful for hikers or if one wants to get elevations for jetting or predict weather in higher elevations. When going at speed on a motorcycle, this is less necessary.
c. When looking at City Navigator and Topo side by side, the aesthetic difference is discernable. The roads listed and what they aestetically look like is slightly different. Since the data is compiled from different sources, they can appear to be similar but, ultimately different. Navteq provides the data for City Navigator (CNNT) and the Topo information can come from a variety of sources based on what country Topo is discussed. USA is generally USFS, BLM, USGS, NOAA and other local/state/federal agencies while international Topo's are acquired by Garmin. Garmin uses many other companies, agencies and data sources who gather, and are paid by Garmin or partner with them, to sell the data through Garmin's distribution. All of these various Topos can be viewed and reaearched by visiting the Garmin website and viewing each map independently. This explains why the Topo's in other countries look different and have different formats.
d. CNNT comes out four times a year and the xxxx.3 release is usually the one that has all of the previous years updates for roads in it. Topo comes out every four years. Last one was in 2009 for the USA so expect a release in the 2013 timeframe.

The interesting part about CNNT North America 2013.3 vs. Topo USA (24K or 100K) is that we routinely ride all of the outdoor roads in the USA and there have been very few times that we have seen a road not on CNNT when compared to Topo. Meaning, we look for a reason to buy Topo, thinking that it HAS to have something that CNNT doesn't but we find that with all of the udpates coming out four times a year, as well as where they get their data from, the CNNT product works great in the USA. We ride fire roads/single track/4x4 roads all the time and find that all of these roads are right on the map with CNNT. Begs one to ask, "Why would I buy TOPO for motorcycles?" Good question and open to further discussion.

Summary

We suggest purchasing the Garmin Montana 650, City Navigator with a Lifetime Maps retail card, the AMPS rugged mount with audio/power cable, the OEM screen protectors, vehicle suction cup mount, vehicle power cable for auto's and the carrying case. You can always add Topo by buying the 650t at time of purchase or at a later date. All of this should be about $700 to your door. You will be able to do on and off road riding with this setup. As an authorized Garmin dealer, we can get these items for you or help you get the part numbers together for your Christmas list.

Good question and good luck.


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