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Old 08-30-2013, 05:07 PM   #1
viverrid OP
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Would A B S have saved her?

Better riding certainly would have. We both made the same maneuver. I completed it routinely, she crashed.

Wife & I were each on our own dualsport thumpers. DRZ for me, XT-225 for her. We were riding along a paved road and wanted to make a 90 degree right onto a dirt road. We were rolling along pretty well. I braked hard, straight ahead on the pavement, released and turned onto the dirt.

My wife braked hard on the pavement and was still braking hard as she turned onto the dirt. Of course the front tucked and down she went. Bad sprain resulted. We were both really upset at the time and in hindsight I felt bad that I didn't just stop on the pavement and make sure she was stopped, before we both turned in. (A full stop wasn't necessary at all, but would have made sure she was okay to turn in.)

She said later, weeks later when she was finally willing to talk about it, that it never occurred to her that she should let up on the brake before turning onto the dirt. She drove cars for too much of her life and she drove the bike into the corner like she would have driven her car in (so what if the front tires scrubbed),

So is this what front ABS is for?
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:39 PM   #2
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ABS prevents wheel from locking, not side slip

if your going too fast to corner on a loose surface, slowing down after the fact doesn't help

when lead riding in a group of any type, 2 people, 10 people, communicate impending turns ahead
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:01 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
ABS prevents wheel from locking, not side slip

if your going too fast to corner on a loose surface, slowing down after the fact doesn't help

when lead riding in a group of any type, 2 people, 10 people, communicate impending turns ahead
Be ready. People argue that point all the time here, and for the life of me I can't understand why...
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:42 PM   #4
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If she didn't already know where you were going then you wrecked your wife yourself.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
If she didn't already know where you were going then you wrecked your wife yourself.
I actually thought that, but didn't want to say it

second guessing after the fact is like saying, I might try that again

I have to ask viverid, Did your ABS engage?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:12 PM   #6
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Vivian, I don't mean to get personal here, but I've been reading your posts about your wife learning how to ride and the subsequent mishaps. And I've come to the conclusions, that you probably aren't the guy that ought to be teaching her how to ride. I taught my wife how to ride, starting out on a KTM500mxc 2 stroke on the beach at Pismo (no, she couldn't kick start it), then a YZ250 2 stroke, then a GS500 twin, GZ250, then a Sportster, then my Ducati S4 916. She never hit the ground on the street. But I was a nervous wreck, if she was going to fast, especially on the Duc, I'd get past her and slow her down. I never led her into shit I didn't think she could handle, and she seemed to have a bit of self preservation instinct. But eventually, she stopped riding. Of which I'm glad, there worst thing, in my mind, would be to see her bouncing down the road.

Now, it appears you led your wife into this one. You being the more experienced rider and all. And no, ABS wouldn't have saved her. ABS is a helpful addition, but it does not replace riding skill. I think if you continue to do this stuff with her, you are.going to get her killed or suffering some major injuries, and I'm 100% serious about that. Get her some real instruction, or get her off a bike before its too late.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:28 PM   #7
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Riding course first and then let her learn form her mistakes. I mean, it's how we all learned, right?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:49 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SgtDuster View Post
Riding course first and then let her learn form her mistakes. I mean, it's how we all learned, right?
We've been over that before. She took and passed the riding course. The riding course is all at low speeds on a level paved parking lot. No dirt.

There was another thread where another inmate wrote about his wife being newly licensed after taking the course, in which she did great. So she went riding around the block in their own neighborhood. She didn't come back so he went looking. He found her down only a block or so away, she'd been cornering hard and went over some sand or gravel. She didn't know why she went down. He showed her the gravel. She asked "that made me crash?" And was sour on riding ever after. She didn't have any gravel on the MSF range and it wouldn't have made her car crash.

However, my wife also took and passed MSF-dirt. But that's all low speed on a range smaller than our former back yard (we live in town now). No transitions on & off pavement.

We have talked about her crash. In hindsight I would have stopped on the pavement and waited even though it was not necessary. But she says it was her decision to turn. She saw me go in and thought she could make it too. She could have if she'd turned WHERE it was I turned, rather than WHEN it was I turned. She was well back and if I had time to brake so did she.

Because she doesn't ride woods, her bike has more of a dualsport front and has a LOT more front grip (either braking or turning) on pavement than my bike does. Not quite as good on a dirt road, but I don't think ANY front tire would have gripped enough for what she did.

My DRZ has a knobby front, I know it can be pushed braking on pavement as long as I keep my weight back. I don't know if it would actually stoppie if I put my weight forward, I've never tried. I doubt it, I think it would still push.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndog67 View Post
Vivian, I don't mean to get personal here, but I've been reading your posts about your wife learning how to ride and the subsequent mishaps. And I've come to the conclusions, that you probably aren't the guy that ought to be teaching her how to ride. I taught my wife how to ride, starting out on a KTM500mxc 2 stroke on the beach at Pismo (no, she couldn't kick start it), then a YZ250 2 stroke, then a GS500 twin, GZ250, then a Sportster, then my Ducati S4 916. She never hit the ground on the street. But I was a nervous wreck, if she was going to fast, especially on the Duc, I'd get past her and slow her down. I never led her into shit I didn't think she could handle, and she seemed to have a bit of self preservation instinct. But eventually, she stopped riding. Of which I'm glad, there worst thing, in my mind, would be to see her bouncing down the road.

Now, it appears you led your wife into this one. You being the more experienced rider and all. And no, ABS wouldn't have saved her. ABS is a helpful addition, but it does not replace riding skill. I think if you continue to do this stuff with her, you are.going to get her killed or suffering some major injuries, and I'm 100% serious about that. Get her some real instruction, or get her off a bike before its too late.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by randyo View Post
I have to ask viverid, Did your ABS engage?
A DRZ doesn't have ABS.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
I actually thought that, but didn't want to say it
Needed to be said.

I ride pairs with my wife. We have Burgmans, and comms, and stay on the pavement, but the same principle apples --- avoid surprises.

We chat back and forth all the time, discussing our route, and I've always relied on my turn signals to show I'm turning here.

I started using arm signals this summer to indicate I was about to swerve right in front of her and stop suddenly so I could take a picture. She keeps telling me how much she appreciates arm signals, so now it's become a habit. She has ABS and it works really well.

FWIW, we practice panic stops. Still. It's good to know what to expect if you hammer the brakes hard.

ABS is effective at keeping the brakes from locking up in a hard stop. The are effective only as long as the front wheel is straight. If the wheel starts to turn, the ABS will help break the (angled) front tire loose. If the wheel is turned away from the axis of motion, it must be rolling, or the bike is going down. No way around it.

If you ride often with your wife, you might look into headsets. Cardo and SENA are good brands, starting at $300 for the pair. They make riding a lot more fun, at least for us.

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Old 08-30-2013, 10:31 PM   #12
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ABS is a crutch, learn to ride the bike properly first. Then it's a nice back up.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:41 AM   #13
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I would try to find an advanced dirt school for her.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey View Post
ABS is a crutch, learn to ride the bike properly first. Then it's a nice back up.
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:39 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Scott_F View Post
... If the wheel starts to turn, the ABS will help break the (angled) front tire loose. If the wheel is turned away from the axis of motion, it must be rolling, or the bike is going down. No way around it....

Why is the wheel locking up the fault of the antilock braking system and not the brakes themselves?
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:04 AM   #15
Aj Mick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henshao View Post
Why is the wheel locking up the fault of the antilock braking system and not the brakes themselves?
Why is the wheel locking up the fault of the antilock braking system and the brakes and not the rider?
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