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Old 08-05-2009, 11:27 AM   #31
itsatdm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngil
I have finally lost hope in this beast. Maybe after a few days and some wrenching, my attitude will change.
To me this is going to be the Achilles heel of my 800.




Yes, an Ohlins shock is pictured. The stocker bent the bolts too.
I felt concerned enough about this to pull my shock bolt and luckily it is OK. The measurement I got between the mounting flanges was 2 3/4 in. The stock shock spacer is 1 3/8in and whole set up seemed to be a poor design. Then I pulled the rubber seat latch and noticed it too had a spacer. When the bolt is tighted to spec the two spacers butt up to one another and should provide a good reinforcement to the bolt. So not as bad as I thought.
I can see that if an aftermarket shock did not have a spacer as wide as the stock one, there would be no reinforcement for the bolt and it could bend which in turn could bend the crossmember.
For the stocker to do that, it looks like it had to be under a lot of pressure, had an improper spacer installed or a frame not to spec in width.

itsatdm screwed with this post 08-22-2009 at 09:39 AM
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Old 08-05-2009, 05:00 PM   #32
johngil OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm
I felt concerned enough about this to pull my shock bolt and luckily it is OK. The measurement I got between the mounting flanges was 2 3/4 in. The stock shock spacer is 1 3/8in and whole set up seemed to be a poor design. Then I pulled the rubber seat latch and noticed it too had a spacer. When the bolt is tighted to spec the two flanges butt up to one another and should provide a good reinforcement to the bolt. So not as bad as I thought.
I can see that if an aftermarket shock did not have a spacer as wide as the stock one, there would be no reinforcement for the bolt and it could bend which in turn could bend the crossmember.
For the stocker to do that, it looks like it had to be under a lot of pressure, had an improper spacer installed or a frame not to spec in width.
The Ohlins re-uses the stock spacer.
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:28 AM   #33
johngil OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upweekis
contact Motorad directly with that story and pictures. You want corporate involved in that
I did just that.
BMW wants the bike back to the shop for further evaluation. A rep. from BMW NA will be sent to the shop, hopefully next week.

The folks @ BMW NA are very responsive. I'm crossing my fingers.
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Old 08-19-2009, 04:37 AM   #34
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Keep us in the loop John. Good luck.
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:02 AM   #35
johngil OP
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My BMWNA rep. now works for BMW Canada.
I hope I can easily find out who is looking after things now.
The bike has been returned to the dealer for a closer inspection.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:43 AM   #36
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Not sure if that has already been suggested but check your rear shocks for signs of coil bind. If you have your pre-load set so high that the SPRING is locking on itself before the shock bottoms out you are risking significant damage (like what you are experiencing).

If your bike was doing this with the OEM shock than it probably isn't the problem unless you modified the OEM shock/spring before the problem started.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:00 PM   #37
johngil OP
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Well, it took some poking around but I am starting to find others that are bending their bolts.
This could get interesting.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:15 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngil
Well, it took some poking around but I am starting to find others that are bending their bolts.
This could get interesting.
Interesting... Please keep us appraised. I do not think it is a great design, but it would not have set off any alarm bells either. Maybe there is a tolerance buildup issue with the shock bolt mounting tab spacing (frame size) and the spacer size that needs more careful attention at the point of assembly. I think I have pounded mine pretty hard, and did not see any evidence of bending but did not actually remove the bolt. BTW, I have my preload set at pretty much the max (can't turn the knob anymore by hand, and I am not limp wristed).
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:21 PM   #39
johngil OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
I am not limp wristed).
I understand. No, really I do.

It wouldn't hurt to loosen the bolt and re-torque. The way the rubber forms around the bent bolt in the top eye of the shock may hide a lot.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:32 PM   #40
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I have been taking motorcycles apart and putting them back together as long as I have been riding them. 32 years. This design is a new one on me.
I do not have any formal engineering background and don't claim that the numbers don't work in the case of the shock bolt and mount area on the 800. But my frame is bending.
I can say in my opinion, the bolt is spanning too great an area and is begging to bend when stressed more so than the conventional mounting methods used by other manufacturers. The bolt diameter is also pretty small compared to what I have seen as well.
I'm not over-confident that I will get BMW to repair my bike. I can only hope.

My riding style may be faster or more aggressive than the intended user for this machine, but that's not saying much. I haven't launched this bike or hammered sets of stadium whoops w/ it. I have never even crashed (in motion) this bike. I can ride all day long and come back for more tomorrow. That said, I ride so that I can ride again another day. I would expect this bike to hold up to frequent off road use.
I'm finding lots of folks who have bought and sold 800's after coming to some realizations re: it's longevity when used off road.
I truly enjoy this bike and will be sad when she goes.

Joel, can you look at this mounting design and honestly say you feel it is a good one?
Again, it begs to fail in my opinion.
I will wait for BMW's response and go from there.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:52 PM   #41
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman
These customers break things all the time and have lots of crash damage / mud in air box / bent frames, and other stuff like that. ..
These are indications that these riders possibly spend more time with the bike on it's side than on it's wheels. When the bike is on it's side there's very little stress placed on the shock or it's mounting points.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:35 AM   #42
johngil OP
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Agreed. But I did ask you a question.
I'm willing to be one of a few and possibly totally screwed here if that's the reality.

The design puts more emphasis into mounting the seat lock than being a strong, triangulated shock mounting point.

Since this is the internet, I will go out of my way to tell you, Joel, that I'm not trying to start any arguments or question your experiences. I'm just sharing mine.

See you on the trail! (if I ever get my bike back)
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:47 AM   #43
Bruno T .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman
I have watched poorly executed jumps, or at least poor landings that totally bottomed the rear shock with both of these guys I have ridden with.
If that were the case you would find bent bolts, mounting ears and possibly frames.

When a shock is bottomed hard, with enough force, something will bend/break. That's the case on any motorcycle. The question is how much force does it take to bend/break things, and what things bend/break.

Nothing is indestructible.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:47 AM   #44
itsatdm
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I hope it works out for you. IMO that cross tube can't be straigtened, it will only bend again, but it can be replaced. As to the bolt and bushing, it appears a larger diameter bolt could be made to fit with some drilling and tapping or a 1 piece bushing used for both the shock and rubber mount. Hope it doesn't come to that, but better than nothing.
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:22 AM   #45
johngil OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm
I hope it works out for you. IMO that cross tube can't be straigtened, it will only bend again, but it can be replaced. As to the bolt and bushing, it appears a larger diameter bolt could be made to fit with some drilling and tapping or a 1 piece bushing used for both the shock and rubber mount. Hope it doesn't come to that, but better than nothing.
You are correct that the cross tube can't be straightened in my opinion. As for replacing it, I don't know. It's pretty much socked in.
I have some ideas if I'm forced to repair this myself. I just don't want to go there. I'm an electrician, not a bike builder. I will use my insurance if need be. I couldn't sell the bike w/ any home made repair job w/o full disclosure.

signed, disappointed
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