To ABS or not to ABS??

[Boston12GS]

Originally Posted by UK_Engineer

Safety aids lead one into a false sense of security.

How is the sense of security "false" with ABS? Are you suggesting that ABS doesn't work?

If we assume, as the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates, that ABS systems do in fact allow for more controlled and safer braking in hazardous conditions/circumstances, the only way to end up with an overall lower margin of braking safety on an ABS-equipped bike is for the rider to negatively compensate for the ABS by riding in an incredibly reckless manner.

I don't know about you, but that's not my plan.

Having owned bikes both with and without ABS, it's very difficult for me to imagine buying a bike again without.

And anybody who doesn't know to turn off their ABS while riding dirt shouldn't be riding on dirt. It's their ignorance that is creating the danger, not the option of having ABS.

[Mudcat]

Originally Posted by def

Most of us are NOT very skilled in brake modulation and front-rear brake balance...especially if a panic stop occurs...ABS...don't even think about it.......just get it!

Yep, if you have never learned how to use your brakes ABS would be a big help.

I know in emergency situations, I react instinctively. That doesn’t include just squeezing levers.

I hate ABS on my bike…

[scooteraug02]

Originally Posted by Pigford

If you NEED ABS on a bike, then give up 2 wheels and get a car

The whole idea of a bike is for Man & Machine to gel - to be as one !

The more of this electronic sh*te thats put on a bike, the less input the rider has - it may be safer, but if I wanted safe travel, I'd walk everywhere

Take Moto GP, the best riders have slated the electronics for taking away the rider skill, and therefore reducing the excitement - and therefore ultimate thrill & enjoyment, let alone the extra weight & complexity.

Who says you can't with your bike if it has ABS? My ABS rarely kicks in unless I am intentionally testing it. If it does kick in during a situation I can make a mental note to adjust next time or in the next similar situations without going down (Free riding lesson).

Safer on a motorcycle is bad? I gel with my GSA because I can put more miles on it. If you make a mistake and go down in a situation where ABS could have prevented the spill, you will be gelling with a hospital bed or the couch.

P.S. ABS has to work on a jetliner or it is not legal to fly. It's too easy to lock up the tires on landing or aborted takeoff.

[diabolik37]

Originally Posted by scooteraug02

P.S. ABS has to work on a jetliner or it is not legal to fly. It's too easy to lock up the tires on landing or aborted takeoff.

After a little research it turn out that 747 do have a brake system but not ABS. It is actually called BSCU (brake system control unit) and it was develop way before ABS was even invented. It works more like an automatic clucth. To cut the story short it is design to prevent slinding rather than rolling. ABS what actually develop from the concept of the BSCU...

And Def you were right. They can brake on landing way before the reverse thrust is applyed. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

This is the explanation from a 747 captain:

"Use of brakes, spoilers, and reverse thrust is a command decision and will be done differently in various situations.

The "squeak" and puff of blue smoke is the result of wheels spinning up to rolling speed when they touch the runway. Various gizmos have been tried to spin the wheels up before they touch, but it turns out to be more complexity than it's worth, and the pilots need the sound and feel of the tires spinning up to sense the moment of touchdown.

Brakes may be applied at any time after touchdown, but it is not done automatically. The pilot can apply the brakes gently and start slowing the airplane without overheating the brakes, while saving the harder braking power for later when the end of the runway is coming at you and you have gotten rid of most of the speed you had at touchdown.

What I think people are thinking of when they mention "computer controlled" brakes and other science fiction is that all airliners have anti-lock brakes that work very much the way they work on a car. The controller senses if the wheels are sliding rather than rolling, and reduces the force of the braking so as to keep the wheels turning. This almost completely eliminates skidding on the runway and overheated brakes.

The "autobrake" system described extensively in another answer was tried as an option on some airplanes. Most pilots didn't like it, and it has been removed or disabled in most cases. Too much gadgetry for a function that human pilots do better. The "autobrake" thingie, for example, can't see a patch of snow on the runway, but a human pilot can. QED.

Thrust reversers can also be applied, if so equipped, at almost any practical time after touchdown. It is not instant, and it is not automatic. It usually takes a few seconds to arm and activate the thrust reversers after touchdown, and then it takes more seconds for the engines to "spool up" to give effective reverse thrust.

So the general answer is that all types of stopping control are used at about the same time. The bakes take hold first, but not with full force, and then they are augmented by reverse thrust and spoilers. And it's all manually operated. It's one of the things pilots do. Source(s):

retired Boeing 747-400 Captain, Pacific routes"

[scooteraug02]

Here is more on airplanes. They are worse than this forum.

http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-381059.html

[def]

Originally Posted by scooteraug02

Safer on a motorcycle is bad? I gel with my GSA because I can put more miles on it. If you make a mistake and go down in a situation where ABS could have prevented the spill, you will be gelling with a hospital bed or the couch.

Or, gellin' in a box in the ground........

[def]

Originally Posted by diabolik37

After a little research it turn out that 747 do have a brake system but not ABS. It is actually called BSCU (brake system control unit) and it was develop way before ABS was even invented. It works more like an automatic clucth. To cut the story short it is design to prevent slinding rather than rolling. ABS what actually develop from the concept of the BSCU...

And Def you were right. They can brake on landing way before the reverse thrust is applyed. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

This is the explanation from a 747 captain:

"Use of brakes, spoilers, and reverse thrust is a command decision and will be done differently in various situations.

The "squeak" and puff of blue smoke is the result of wheels spinning up to rolling speed when they touch the runway. Various gizmos have been tried to spin the wheels up before they touch, but it turns out to be more complexity than it's worth, and the pilots need the sound and feel of the tires spinning up to sense the moment of touchdown.

Brakes may be applied at any time after touchdown, but it is not done automatically. The pilot can apply the brakes gently and start slowing the airplane without overheating the brakes, while saving the harder braking power for later when the end of the runway is coming at you and you have gotten rid of most of the speed you had at touchdown.

What I think people are thinking of when they mention "computer controlled" brakes and other science fiction is that all airliners have anti-lock brakes that work very much the way they work on a car. The controller senses if the wheels are sliding rather than rolling, and reduces the force of the braking so as to keep the wheels turning. This almost completely eliminates skidding on the runway and overheated brakes.

The "autobrake" system described extensively in another answer was tried as an option on some airplanes. Most pilots didn't like it, and it has been removed or disabled in most cases. Too much gadgetry for a function that human pilots do better. The "autobrake" thingie, for example, can't see a patch of snow on the runway, but a human pilot can. QED.

Thrust reversers can also be applied, if so equipped, at almost any practical time after touchdown. It is not instant, and it is not automatic. It usually takes a few seconds to arm and activate the thrust reversers after touchdown, and then it takes more seconds for the engines to "spool up" to give effective reverse thrust.

So the general answer is that all types of stopping control are used at about the same time. The bakes take hold first, but not with full force, and then they are augmented by reverse thrust and spoilers. And it's all manually operated. It's one of the things pilots do. Source(s):

retired Boeing 747-400 Captain, Pacific routes"

That does it......I want Auto brakes on my next boxer....