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Old 03-30-2010, 06:31 PM   #1
firerigger OP
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RFS Countershaft Seal Replacement

I have a leak from the countershaft seal on my RFS ('04 EXC 450), so I plan to replace it at my next service. What is involved? Do I need special tools? I'm pretty savvy (I do my own valve adjustments and such), I've just never done this particular repair before and I'm looking for some dos and don'ts before I get into it.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:50 PM   #2
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You will need at least the seal and the 0-ring that goes at the inner end of the bushing that the seal rides on. If the bushing itself has wear grooves then it will need replacing also. It's a fairly easy 30 minute or so, 1 beer operation, the main issues to watch for are 1) make sure everything is clean around the countershaft area before you start, 2) pull the bushing off the countershaft, the old 0-ring with either come out with it or be on the countershaft, 3) pry the old seal out with a seal puller, I got one from Sears (Craftsman 9-47645) and be careful to only grab the seal and not to gouge the bore it sits in, and 4) drive the new seal in straight, slowly, using a 32 mm socket (I think, from memory). There is no seat for the seal, so just drive it in until flush with the outside of the case. I'm sure others will chime in with what I've missed...
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:28 PM   #3
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Skowinski has it pretty much explained.

I would only ask first if you are using the right front sprocket (very common mistake) and if the bolt and cone washer are in good shape, as in coned and not flat.

1. Some aftermarket counteshaft sprockets are too narrow and don't put any pressure on the spacer and o-ring. Without pressure, the oil leaks from between the CS and the spacer. Check that there is no side-to-side play with the bolt tightened.

2. The washer behind the CS bolt should be cone-shaped to put pressure on the spacer and o-ring. These flatten out after a while. The bolt and washer come as a kit for about $3 and the bolt is even pre-threadlocked.

3. The spacer is steel so it is pretty rare to see one with a groove in it from riding on the seal but I suppose it can happen. If the seal surface isn't flat, just replace it with a new seal and new o-ring.



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Old 03-30-2010, 09:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GR0NK
Skowinski has it pretty much explained.

I would only ask first if you are using the right front sprocket (very common mistake) and if the bolt and cone washer are in good shape, as in coned and not flat.

1. Some aftermarket counteshaft sprockets are too narrow and don't put any pressure on the spacer and o-ring. Without pressure, the oil leaks from between the CS and the spacer. Check that there is no side-to-side play with the bolt tightened.

2. The washer behind the CS bolt should be cone-shaped to put pressure on the spacer and o-ring. These flatten out after a while. The bolt and washer come as a kit for about $3 and the bolt is even pre-threadlocked.

3. The spacer is steel so it is pretty rare to see one with a groove in it from riding on the seal but I suppose it can happen. If the seal surface isn't flat, just replace it with a new seal and new o-ring.



Sean
Mine just started weeping after I swapped out the front and rear sprockets/chain. A buddy told me that I should have replaced the front sprocket washer and bolt as well for this exact reason. It did not make a lot of sense at the time either, especially since I run my chain very loose.
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Off the grid
Mine just started weeping after I swapped out the front and rear sprockets/chain. A buddy told me that I should have replaced the front sprocket washer and bolt as well for this exact reason. It did not make a lot of sense at the time either, especially since I run my chain very loose.
The spacer is the most expensive part at around $20 but is rarely needed. The seal, o-ring and bolt/washer kit will run you all of about $10 combined.


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Old 03-31-2010, 01:28 AM   #6
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The boys said it all pretty much.

Only thing I can add is to use the 2-stroke O-ring as it's a tad thicker. 0770250020 from KTM if you are ordering other stuff anyway, or look for a 25,00mm X 2,00mm NBR 70 in the hardware store.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:57 AM   #7
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It is well known that aftermarket front sprockets are thinner and cause leaks on RFS motors. Just make sure you have a KTM front sprocket and then if it still leaks you can follow the advice of others above.
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
The boys said it all pretty much.

Only thing I can add is to use the 2-stroke O-ring as it's a tad thicker. 0770250020 from KTM if you are ordering other stuff anyway, or look for a 25,00mm X 2,00mm NBR 70 in the hardware store.
I did not know that. Thanks for the tip.



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Old 03-31-2010, 03:44 PM   #9
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This is great info, just what I was hoping to hear. Now for the next part. Do you guys have the part numbers for these bits handy? My local KTM stealership is famous for screwing this kind of stuff up, and I want no doubts if I got to get the stuff from them or another supplier.
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:53 PM   #10
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www.munnracing.com

Click on "Microfiche" and then select year/model/engine/subassembly. (Transmission II 6-Gear 400-525 EXC, 525 MXC (EU))

They will give you an online discount of 15% on the advertised prices.


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Old 03-31-2010, 04:40 PM   #11
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+1 on Munn. I have spent days looking at the microfiches of various models.

Here are the numbers from my previous order:

CS 14T 50033029014
CS shaft seal 760324571
Bolt+washer CS 59033034044
O-Ring shaft 770020220
or O-Ring shaft (2 Stroke 25x2) 770250020
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:22 PM   #12
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I just picked up a 2001 KTM EXC 400... I know these bikes are prone to be 'noisy'. I am just finishing up the water pump seal upgrade. I'm going to check the valves etc. while I'm putting it back together.

I just noticed that my front counter sprocket has some side to side play in it. My next project on the bike was to tear into the clutch/gearbox as it is excessively noisy compared to a friend of mine's EXC 400 of the same year.

I'm an aircraft mechanic and am not afraid to do anything on these bikes... but I would love input from you all who have 'been there and done that' as this is my first KTM and I am still very much learning the maintenance on this machine.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriTi View Post
I just picked up a 2001 KTM EXC 400... I know these bikes are prone to be 'noisy'. I am just finishing up the water pump seal upgrade. I'm going to check the valves etc. while I'm putting it back together.

I just noticed that my front counter sprocket has some side to side play in it. My next project on the bike was to tear into the clutch/gearbox as it is excessively noisy compared to a friend of mine's EXC 400 of the same year.

I'm an aircraft mechanic and am not afraid to do anything on these bikes... but I would love input from you all who have 'been there and done that' as this is my first KTM and I am still very much learning the maintenance on this machine.
Could be the primary nut, there's an alum nut in there that tends to loosen a little making for a noisy bottom end. It's a reverse thread so it doesn't loosen enough to come off. DJH on KTMTalk sells a steel replacement nut. The fix is to replace the woodruff key and retorque it with the new nut.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:44 PM   #14
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Bought an 04 450 EXC last Christmas and it was leaking as well. At first thought it was just the spring washer and sproket, but ended up doing it a second time to replace the other parts and do it right. It's an easy process, nothing to fear, I used a seal puller as well.

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Old 10-30-2013, 03:55 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
Could be the primary nut, there's an alum nut in there that tends to loosen a little making for a noisy bottom end. It's a reverse thread so it doesn't loosen enough to come off. DJH on KTMTalk sells a steel replacement nut. The fix is to replace the woodruff key and retorque it with the new nut.
So... I got on KTMTalk but I pretty much can't do anything on that forum until I do a bunch of stuff to "get out of probation". Is there any EASY way to get in touch with DJH on KTMTalk so I can get the steel replacement nut?
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