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Old 06-20-2010, 03:25 AM   #46
Poolside
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen
Uh just to clarify…

Turn OFF the bike then plug or unplug a sensor. But not while the engine is running…

This has been a public service announcement courtesy of the ADV technical department…

JJ
What do you mean, are you thinking that will damage the ECU? I can tell you that as far as an ECU input is concerned, the absence of a signal is the same as the presence of a signal. 'No signal' merely reads as 'no signal'.

A variable signal, including a zero signal, on the TPS and O2 sensor inputs is perfectly normal. The Motronic handles those signal changes live, just like when the throttle is moved.

Maybe you're thinking that it's generally a good idea to not reach down and unplug the ECU while you're riding? I can get that as a good sort of caution. But heck man, how else can I find out what happens until I try it? So far I haven't crashed from unplugging the TPS and O2 sensors, while riding.


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Poolside screwed with this post 06-20-2010 at 03:32 AM
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:32 AM   #47
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Maybe I'll tape an interview with Jason at Mischler's BMW. So that he can clarify what he meant by "bad O2 sensor." My O2 sensor wasn't non-functioning. My O2 sensor was mal-functioning, resulting in the engine running full-rich.

In neutral, under no load, I could redline. Under load, 1st gear, redline. 2nd gear, redline. 3rd-5th gear, 65mph maximum speed.

Maybe I could re-install the bad O2 sensor... P
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Old 06-20-2010, 01:57 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside

What do you mean, are you thinking that will damage the ECU? I can tell you that as far as an ECU input is concerned, the absence of a signal is the same as the presence of a signal. 'No signal' merely reads as 'no signal'.

A variable signal, including a zero signal, on the TPS and O2 sensor inputs is perfectly normal. The Motronic handles those signal changes live, just like when the throttle is moved.

Maybe you're thinking that it's generally a good idea to not reach down and unplug the ECU while you're riding? I can get that as a good sort of caution. But heck man, how else can I find out what happens until I try it? So far I haven't crashed from unplugging the TPS and O2 sensors, while riding.
It was meant as a caution for those who may not know that it is better to be safe than sorry (as in not tempt Mr. Murphy and possibly kill the ECU). Pulling a sensor cleanly out of the circuit usually isn't a problem (there are exceptions), but if done in a 'dirty' manner, well it isn't pretty…

Besides you (and I) are technologically aware and proficient. Fools such as us take much for granted and if we fry a component, well, we chalk it up to experience.

And yeah it probably won't result in a dead engine but if it does you aren't going anywhere until the moronic brain has a transplant ($$).

JJ
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:47 PM   #49
rattis
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Pissed Polarbears

not rellay to do with principal subject of this thread but rather with a comment in one of the replies.
The one whos' more concerned about having a catalyic converter on his bike and may loose the odd hp than global heating should have his head examined and loose his right to combust anything .I'd better start a new thread....
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:20 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaman
Maybe I'll tape an interview with Jason at Mischler's BMW. So that he can clarify what he meant by "bad O2 sensor." My O2 sensor wasn't non-functioning. My O2 sensor was mal-functioning, resulting in the engine running full-rich.

In neutral, under no load, I could redline. Under load, 1st gear, redline. 2nd gear, redline. 3rd-5th gear, 65mph maximum speed.

Maybe I could re-install the bad O2 sensor... P
Bananaman, the detatails help us to understand your experience. However I am still having difficulty imagining how any malfunction of the lambda can limit top speed, or what is meant by "engine running full rich" (from lambda sensor input). The motronic 2.2 is designed to ignore out of range signals from lambda by defaulting to a slightly richer idle and steady state cruise. Clearly you value and trust the opinion of your shop. Is it possible that while the lambda was faulty this was only coincidental to your complaint of limited top speed? Did you try disconnecting the sensor before replacing it? The point of this is to assist others in understand how motronic 2.2 uses different sensor inputs and what to check first when encountering very poor performance such as you described. TPS and HES sensors are critical, lambda is not. Did you discuss this opinion with your shop? You can always disconnect the new lambda sensor and observe the effects.

Jim: Are you are saying that the life of the 1100 catalyst (U.S. models) will not be shortened if the lambda is disconnected for extended operation? I have not claimed to know the answer, instead, I posted that there was debate on that issue. Non-U.S. spec 1100 owners often mistake their pre-muffler/collector for a cat and ponder the absence of a lambda on their machines. Non-U.S. spec 1100 owners say they value the clarification because they find some of the motronic threads confusing.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:13 PM   #51
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Tomorow I'll disconnect the sensor and report what happens.

Quick question: does disconnecting the sensor achieve the same re-set as disconnecting the battery or pulling the fuse?
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:42 PM   #52
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No, but that raises a good question. It has been reported that the ecu will retain "I have an 02 sensor config" until the power is disconnected. Upon power disconnect-restart ecu supposedly checks just once for an O2 or CO pot and also checks to see if a CCP is installed and what jumper setting. The re-set instructions were mainly for pp switching over to CO pot from lambda but are normally followed for other mods and any sensor changes.

That you are willing to take the time to do this test and report your result will be appreciated by other 1100 owners. If you want to simulate what the shop says occurred, then no, do not re-set the ecu power after disconnecting lambda. The ecu should generate a "bad 02" fault code. Maybe ask your tech which lambda fault code he read? Shorted to ground?, Open? ect. We do not know at this point what type of lambda fault the dealer detected. The ecu is capable of storing several diiferent types of lambda fault codes. My understanding is that regardless of the kind of lambda fault detected by the ecu, its response should be the same which is to ignore the sensor.

If you disconnect then you will be simulating the open circuit fault. Idling should be affected to some extent, followed by the ecu slowly adapting to running w/o lambda. That isn't the issue. You just want to see if the top speed limit returns. Not many expect this to happen but who knows? Perhaps ride a few days w/o lambda so the ecu can optimize its "dead lambda" compensation settings. Once you finish making observations w/o lambda and it is reconnected, then definitely re-set the ecu to clear fault codes so that the ecu can again recognize that a good lambda is present. Just as before, you will have to ride for a few days under varying load conditions for the ecu to optimize.
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:05 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen
It was meant as a caution for those who may not know that it is better to be safe than sorry (as in not tempt Mr. Murphy and possibly kill the ECU). Pulling a sensor cleanly out of the circuit usually isn't a problem (there are exceptions), but if done in a 'dirty' manner, well it isn't pretty…

Besides you (and I) are technologically aware and proficient. Fools such as us take much for granted...
    +1 fool  +1 take much for granted



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Old 06-20-2010, 10:08 PM   #54
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You know, if run that way for a while, a disconnected TPS sensor will cause an 'O2 sensor out of range' fault code.


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Old 06-20-2010, 11:05 PM   #55
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Ah and the thought plickens…

JJ
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• There is understanding of the world precisely to the degree that there is understanding of the Self.

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Old 04-27-2011, 09:18 AM   #56
Jason1202GStime!
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Hi Guys,

How do i know the O2 sensor is not working? I use the 911 to check, it appear that the mili volt reading from the 2 sensors are very different.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:13 AM   #57
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If the O2 sensor is 'out of range' the fuel injection brain will log a fault. This can be read either with a GS-911, a BMW engine diagnostic tool or (I think) the RID.

If they are just different but not out of range then either there is something wrong with the engine or one of the O2 sensors has a problem. It's difficult to tell from this side of my keyboard.

JJ
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• The farther you enter into the Truth the deeper your conviction for truth must be.
• There is understanding of the world precisely to the degree that there is understanding of the Self.

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Old 02-06-2013, 11:13 PM   #58
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O2 Sensor plug under the fuel tank

I was wondering if any of the guru inmates can tell me; can you get access to the O2 sensor connection under the fuel tank by merely lifting the tank at the back (after loosening it) or does it require a full removal with the associated draining of fuel etc. I had an unsuccessful (the freakin' thing was Locktite'ed in or sumthin') go at removing the O2 sensor last week in LA, but had to abandon it and put it all together again as I was running out of time for my flight back to Oz. I am going back to LA tomorrow and will have another crack at it, but will do a pilgrimage up to Sears (rather than Harbor Freight) for some serious wrenches (rather than the adjustable wrench i wrecked trying to get the plug out) and a butane torch, to heat the freakin' thing up before haaving another go at the big heave. Just thinking it would be better to get the whole catcon assembly disconnected away from the bike before I try again, as I am likely to topple the pig over myself if I don't Also, as I was using an adjustable wrench last time - it looked like a 22mm plug - can anyone confirm that?

Thanks folks
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:42 AM   #59
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I don't know about access to the connector on the 1200. But the tank doesn't need to be drained to remove it.

The sensor is 22mm across the wrench flats. After the harness is disconnected and fished through the frame, I think use a 22mm combination wrench and a 3 to 4 pound sledge to tap on it. 'Dead' blow hammers are the wrong tool to create a 'live' inertia impact with.

Hammers from Harbor Freight
3lb: http://www.harborfreight.com/3-lb-dr...dle-67817.html
4lb: http://www.harborfreight.com/4-lb-dr...mer-98258.html



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Old 02-07-2013, 03:58 AM   #60
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Thanks

Thanks you so very much Poolside - I really appreciate your knowledge and reply. I should have mentioned - my bike (I got it only a couple of months ago) is a 2000 R1150GS with 14K miles on it. I will take a trip up to Harbour Freight on Carson/Woodruffe and get the 4 pound sledge you suggested and get stuck into it when I get to Long Beach on Friday. Thanks again - ride safe!
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