The Yamaha Super Tenere XT1200Z Big Thread

[GrahamD]

I know this is a bit off topic but it was interesting.

Looks at BMW shaft problems and compares it to the typical Jap system and his reasons why they don't fail.

Nothing to do with the swing arm breaking in half, but it attempts to explain just one of the problems..

I like the "matter of factness about it"

If this is anything to go by, at least one problem can be minimized by being very "German" about your maintenance schedule.

Anyone care to comment..



Cheers
Graham

[R3B]

Originally Posted by Wasp

There have been reports from owners getting around 5L/100kms but from the couple of tanks I have consumed so far, I can say that I am in the region of 5.8L > 6L/100km.
I do have a tendency to ride pretty hard though

And don't forget that any Off-Road will skyrocket consumtion, because of the Backwheel having to travel anywhere between 40 to 100% extra miles...

if you really push a GS hard it will swallow 9 litres Off-Raod...

[Old Git Ray]

Just a couple of piccys that may be if interest.

The "high" screen as advertised by Yamaha and sells for £120. Unfortunately sold to me !!! It was fitted when I got the bike so I am not sure if it has any effect. Aside from what you can see, it does lean back a lot more. The original screen held in front....bit of a rip-off I think. Maybe the screen supports are not substantial enough to go higher. A plus point for the GSA.


A dirty inside view of the Yamaha bash plate. I grounded hard on a large static rock and bent one of the shock absorbing lugs. It worked. It was bent back in seconds.


Whilst I was doing the the first service, the final drive oil. Very matallic in colour !! Does have a magnetic plug though. Unlike the 2 engine drain plugs.


First service took me (whilst learning) about a hour including fabricating things to get the oil back in.
Basically, change oil and filter, change final drive oil, check operation of all switches (brake lights/stand), check for leaks and steering for roughness. I do not miss my old 09 GSA....

[R3B]

Originally Posted by GrahamD

If this is anything to go by, at least one problem can be minimized by being very "German" about your maintenance schedule.

Well i've done about 600kkm with my beemer, and the splines never failed, and on our other bikes neither, it sound like the one in my current gearbox, which has done about 500kkm, has gotten some play, now the bearing of the layshaft is falling apart.

My bike has to haul once a month all shopping in the trailer up and down the hills here, and i like to pop the occasional wheely, and ride more often than once like seen in my avatar...


It's *not* the construction, that's reasonably sound, where BMW's problems stems from is QA, because the first tranny of this one gave up at 80kkm, and the tranny of the '98er at 6,5kkm, the tranny of the roadrunner (a 96er) held for 275kkm.

With the shafts i've seen the same ridicoulous spreading, the first blew after 220kkm (front cardanic) the second only lasted 70kkm, and the one now in it lasts for over 300kkm.

There is a lot of load on the two cardanics though, they make a steep angle, and on the one that faild so "quickly" (70kkm) you saw marks on the forks, where they touched each other...

But i agree, the Tenere has a imho much sounder angle, and the fact it only has one, means it has a lot less stress to cope with, but if i interprete the exploded view in the Tenere partslist, its splines are outside the lubricated reardrive too...

We'll know in about 3 years if the construction is sound, my S10 will have done approximately 150kkm to make a sound assesment about durability, and i'm quite a critical guy

[Old Git Ray]

Originally Posted by R3B

But i agree, the Tenere has a imho much sounder angle, and the fact it only has one, means it has a lot less stress to cope with, but if i interprete the exploded view in the Tenere partslist, its splines are outside the lubricated reardrive too...

I pulled the boot back for a look-see and saw the cardanic. There are no ties holding the boot in place.

Come to think of it, water can probably get in and stay there (like during a river crossing) so it may be prudent to pre-empt it and smother it in grease. It may have a drain hole but I've not seen one yet.

I'll think about it....

[GrahamD]

Thanks for the service info Ray,

What oil did you use for the shaft?

Cheers
Graham

[eakins]

since that is the same final drive as fjr, isn't there also a schedule to lube the splines or atleast i would check how the factor did it.

that oil is kinda gritty. i would run it another 500mi and do it again to flush everything.

that shock absorbing lug alum. support on the plate looks thin, but maybe that's the purpose to bend. i can see the aftermarket making a much stronger option.

anymore detail on the shield supports. i assume they are bolted to a fairing frame?
won't be long for the aftermarket to offer updated, stronger and quick adjustable supports plus several screen mfg. that factory "tall" shield is a bogus upgrade.

Originally Posted by Old Git Ray

Just a couple of piccys that may be if interest.

The "high" screen as advertised by Yamaha and sells for £120. Unfortunately sold to me !!! It was fitted when I got the bike so I am not sure if it has any effect. Aside from what you can see, it does lean back a lot more. The original screen held in front....bit of a rip-off I think. Maybe the screen supports are not substantial enough to go higher. A plus point for the GSA.


A dirty inside view of the Yamaha bash plate. I grounded hard on a large static rock and bent one of the shock absorbing lugs. It worked. It was bent back in seconds.


Whilst I was doing the the first service, the final drive oil. Very matallic in colour !! Does have a magnetic plug though. Unlike the 2 engine drain plugs.


First service took me (whilst learning) about a hour including fabricating things to get the oil back in.
Basically, change oil and filter, change final drive oil, check operation of all switches (brake lights/stand), check for leaks and steering for roughness. I do not miss my old 09 GSA....

[eakins]

he did not touch upon a big (maybe the biggest) failure point of bmw final drives...the final drive bearing disintergrating, but he is not discussing r1200xx final drives.

to me the failure is
1. corporate arogance.
2. german engineering arogance.

as this guy points out the germans love to answer a question nobody asked. they over-engineer for the sake of??? it creates problems. bmw has a single-sided swing arm to be different and german. this design choice is causing the new bikes final drives bearings to fail. bmw corporate is too arogant to go back to traditional dual sided support for the rear wheel and thus not require so much load on the final drive rear bearing. even they are good about fixxing failures (even outta warranty) they never admit their design is bad. they're german and they know best.

it's ashame. i've owned 2 oilheads and it's a great bike, but arogance has given it a huge achiles heel. for this reason alone, i think the s10 will be a HUGE success worldwide.

Originally Posted by GrahamD

I know this is a bit off topic but it was interesting.

Looks at BMW shaft problems and compares it to the typical Jap system and his reasons why they don't fail.

Nothing to do with the swing arm breaking in half, but it attempts to explain just one of the problems..

I like the "matter of factness about it"

If this is anything to go by, at least one problem can be minimized by being very "German" about your maintenance schedule.

Anyone care to comment..



Cheers
Graham

[GrahamD]

Originally Posted by eakins

he did not touch upon a big (maybe the biggest) failure point of bmw final drives...

I know that is why I said ONE of the problems, and he is probably dealing with the "lack of maintenance one".

I have a collection of pics of blown seals (preventable), disintegrated bearings (probably preventable), broken housings (tough luck jack, cop the bill sucker), smashed up valves, and many of them from faily new bikes, so my take is that people have these expectations that BMW contains "magic BMW metal" and all heard the tall tails of BMW's doing 10 million miles and think they can just ride them without even checking things AND that BMW should maybe hire a Japanese QA expert and get this stuff sorted.

The other thing I don't get is that people seem so willing to make up any excuse for it. The latest thread from concerning PJ's ittle snapped housing has a few people blaming the aftermarket shock WTF!.

And the arrogance? Maybe a lot of that, but maybe it has to do with cost / litigation ratio's. Maybe there are so many people willing to cop that level of defects that they just assume that people will keep buying them anyway.

Seems to work on their cars.

The only time I have seen this bite bad is with Alfa Romeo, people made excuses for the rust, bad paint and electrical problems for years while they handled really well and had a great engine.

As soon as the Japanese came up with an answer to the handling and engine performance it was bye bye ALfa Romeo in Australia, for a nearly a decade. They eventually came limping back but are pretty rare these days.

Cheers
Graham

[R3B]

Originally Posted by eakins

that shock absorbing lug alum. support on the plate looks thin, but maybe that's the purpose to bend. i can see the aftermarket making a much stronger option.

Its ment to give way, otherwise the lug on the motorblock will gat the brunt, that was a nastey problem with the firts crashbars on ..., they ripped the lugs out of the engine casing, so the bars did more damage than they prevent...

Actually most damage i've seen is punctures of the upper side of the rockerbox cover, which is only safe in the new alu headcovers, i've even seen it punctured on GSA with their extensive crashbars with kneecapcrushers.

But let us beware this thread of to much ... weaknesses, there is a hole subforum for that.

Originally Posted by Wasp

pulled the sock

If the fit is tight enough in a nice ridge in the casing, it works like a seal, so i don't think you need a draining hole, and a drining hole would mean the fine CSR dust would get a chance to get *in*, bad idea :-)

But as long as i have mine not yet here, would you be so kind making some pictures of the accesible construction, so i can look at how serviceable the joint is, then on the partslist there were partsnumbers for the bearings.

If they are easy changable that is a plus, but also could be the weak spot if they get only a little play in their fitting. Or are they fixed with grean loctite or so?

[GrahamD]

Heads up...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601809

Very funny..

Well, to me anyway

Cheers
Graham

[R3B]

Back On Topic ;-þ

Krátke zvezenie na novej Super Ténéré v okolí Banske Bystrice a Španej Doliny...

Or, nice testride in Slowakia:

[Old Git Ray]

Originally Posted by R3B

Its ment to give way, otherwise the lug on the motorblock will gat the brunt, that was a nastey problem with the firts crashbars on ..., they ripped the lugs out of the engine casing, so the bars did more damage than they prevent...

Actually most damage i've seen is punctures of the upper side of the rockerbox cover, which is only safe in the new alu headcovers, i've even seen it punctured on GSA with their extensive crashbars with kneecapcrushers.

But let us beware this thread of to much ... weaknesses, there is a hole subforum for that.



If the fit is tight enough in a nice ridge in the casing, it works like a seal, so i don't think you need a draining hole, and a drining hole would mean the fine CSR dust would get a chance to get *in*, bad idea :-)

But as long as i have mine not yet here, would you be so kind making some pictures of the accesible construction, so i can look at how serviceable the joint is, then on the partslist there were partsnumbers for the bearings.

If they are easy changable that is a plus, but also could be the weak spot if they get only a little play in their fitting. Or are they fixed with grean loctite or so?

They are replaceable and servicable. The service manual shows one being stripped down apparently off the bike. Whether it is possible on the bike is anybodys guess. My guess would be yes.

[Old Git Ray]

Originally Posted by GrahamD

Thanks for the service info Ray,

What oil did you use for the shaft?

Cheers
Graham

Putoline Hypoid 80, AKA 2 stroke gearbox oil.

Anyway. I have been trying out WASPs blind faith thing with the front brake.

I drove down a steep wet grass slope.
First I tried the rear brake only and was not over impressed. I then just used the front brake (linked mode) and WOW, it is brilliant. It just stops the bike as though its on tarmac (but slower of course) until 3mph is met at which point the ABS turns itself off and the wheels lock (as it needs to). Thanks for the tip Greg.

I also tried the TCS out on a slightly less steep slope (wet grass again). In mode 1 it was just boring but functional, in mode 2 on the second attempt I was power sliding, on the third attempt I was power sliding with both feet up. I was gobsmacked how easy and controlled that it was.

[cgwt]

Originally Posted by fatalerror

Ek oki, "skrik vir niks".
Gideon