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Old 06-09-2010, 06:18 PM   #256
dendrophobe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Duck
Now you see the brilliance of bedliner, yes?
Oh, I see the brilliance; just not my style. I think I'm just going to end up forgoing the tank; between the drain issues when full, side stand vs. center stand, and lack of crash bars... I just can't justify it.

I KNOW I'll drop my bike. Heck, I drop it sometimes now, without all that weight. My crash bars have done great, but i've already had to touch them up; seems like even with bedliner, if that tank hits rocks in a creekbed, it's still going to get damaged; and bedliner is harder to touch up than paint.

Oh well. Guess it'll be MSR bottles and Rotopax for me unless they can find a crash bar fix...
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:30 AM   #257
reinerka
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If you already have crash bars I would find a local welder that can modify those bars (or fabricate new ones). It should not be that difficult.

What drain issue are you talking about? I've been doing 7k miles with the TT now and plain love it. The side stand vs. center stand is not a real issue (for my point of view). I just park it that way for the first 200-300 miles. I think the problem is overrated from TT (my guess is on their legal department) as the weight of the gas is really low and only about 1 gallon (my estimate) sits on the top of the bike.

I wouldn't worry about minor blemishes on the paint then - it is what shows the character of the bike at that point .

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Old 06-10-2010, 03:37 PM   #258
Bill the Duck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dendrophobe
Oh, I see the brilliance; just not my style. I think I'm just going to end up forgoing the tank; between the drain issues when full, side stand vs. center stand, and lack of crash bars... I just can't justify it.

I KNOW I'll drop my bike. Heck, I drop it sometimes now, without all that weight. My crash bars have done great, but i've already had to touch them up; seems like even with bedliner, if that tank hits rocks in a creekbed, it's still going to get damaged; and bedliner is harder to touch up than paint.

Oh well. Guess it'll be MSR bottles and Rotopax for me unless they can find a crash bar fix...
Touch up bedliner? Like with duct tape?


("drain issues when full"? )
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:45 PM   #259
cobblecrazy
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New TT tank

I went to TT in Seattle, and sat on their f800 w/the large tank. I liked the feel and the look so I bit the bullet and bought the tank (unpainted). Prior to the purchase I talked with the guy who did (or was part of) the install, and he suggested taking photos of things to make sure they went back into the right place when putting things back together. He said it was involved, but as long as you felt fairly comfortable with tools it could be done.

During our discussion he said there was one guy who installed the tank with the petcocks and small lines, but he did not go through the full process of taking the tank out, etc. What this guy apparently decided to do was to use the tank as a large "holder", and he carries a small can (maybe the TT one) which he fills from the lines on the petcock and then puts the gas in the OEM tank when needed. Interesting to say the least....

I was wondering if there was anyone out there who has gone through the process and done the install taking photos and posting them as they went?

When the paint is done I'm thinking of doing the install. I was discussing it with the tech guy at the local BMW dealer, and I thought I might be able to install the tank and whatever is associated with the front portion, then take it to them to have them remove the tank and drill the holes. A little cheaper, but puts the more tech stuff in their hands.
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:40 PM   #260
gr8ridn
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I'm a do it yourself kind of guy so I got the unpainted TT Tank. I painted it satin black and did the installation. Couple of points I learned along the way;

1. The instructions are thorough, but require re-reading often to understand the picture reference and exact procedure described. You can do this job if you have a good set of hand tools and a decent torque wrench.

2. When you install the tank bulkhead fittings to the original tank use a quality bore tool such as a 1/2 inch hole saw designed for plastics. The cut has to be clean and round if the bulkhead hardware is to be leak free. You are messin with an expensive tank so you want to use the supplied template and verify the locations many times before cutting the first hole. You need to remove the rear frame to get access to the tank for this operation.

3. You will need a tool to remove the fuel pump cover from the tank. I home made a tool that worked fine. You need this tool to re-assemble and tighten to the correct torque. If you don't get this right the cover will leak or the tank might be damaged from over tightening.

4. I had to trial fit the tank several times to adjust the mounts until it was centered and sound. Once you have the mounts correct the tank is easily removed and replaced during service.

5. The venting of both tanks is somewhat vague in the directions. You need to remove the check valve in the original vent line and replace it with the new hose to the TT Tank. They supply a check valve that is now placed after the two tanks with the direction arrow facing away from the tanks.

6. This is a well engineered kit and when installed carefully should offer a long trouble free service life. Don't skip steps or re-engineer your own short cuts. This is not going to work as well as the designed system and might lead to unsafe conditions.

7. I have fueled from the side stand and the center stand. No issues with stability either way. The issue is if you fill to the top on the centerstand and then park it on the side stand it will leak from the overflow due to being overfilled. I have learned to not overfill and have had no problems with either parking method.

8. I follow the operating instruction to close the petcocks when filling both tanks and only opening the TT petcocks when the fuel usage in the original tank causes the low fuel warning light to go on. Using this method the gravity fed fuel from the TT Tank will not over fill the main tank, no issues.

9. If any of this sounds too advanced for your experience I highly suggest you have a qualified tech do the installation. As you suggested maybe doing the less technical parts and having a tech do the tank bulkhead connectors. If you go this way make sure it is understood that the instructions must be followed so the placement doesn't interfere with the fuel pump/tank level sender and the connector is in an area where it can seal.

This setup has worked flawlessly for me in over 8000 miles since I installed it. I can usually get between 400 and 450 miles from this combination before needing to re-fuel. The bike actually handles better than stock on the road. This is probably due to the extra weight being placed on the front wheel. I did add the Hyper-pro big tank heavy spring kit for the forks.

Have fun and ride!
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:06 AM   #261
Ceri JC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raider
If this is true, I wouldn't leave my $23,000 bike parked on the street there, gas cans or not. They'd just kick it over and smash things.
I don't, if I can help it. I'm not exaggerating, trust me, you park a bike on the road with an easily removable and visually obvious fuel source (like a red Jerry can/rotopax) on the bike, overnight in some areas of somewhere like Glasgow or South London, one of three things will happen:
1. If you're very lucky, nothing will happen. Do it for a week and I can guarantee you that it will.
2. If you're lucky, they'll just steal the fuel to put in their own car/scooter.
3. If you're unlucky, the kids who come across it will be under the age where it is any use to them and will use it to torch something "for a laugh", which might possibly be your bike.

Why do I live there? I don't and I wouldn't; but I do work in these sort of places sometimes.

-----

Back on topic; I am still torn by the idea of the bigger fuel tank. I like the idea a lot, but the TT ones has too many concessions for the cost. Anyone heard of any other ones in the works?
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:00 AM   #262
cobblecrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8ridn
2. When you install the tank bulkhead fittings to the original tank use a quality bore tool such as a 1/2 inch hole saw designed for plastics. The cut has to be clean and round if the bulkhead hardware is to be leak free. You are messin with an expensive tank so you want to use the supplied template and verify the locations many times before cutting the first hole. You need to remove the rear frame to get access to the tank for this operation.

3. You will need a tool to remove the fuel pump cover from the tank. I home made a tool that worked fine. You need this tool to re-assemble and tighten to the correct torque. If you don't get this right the cover will leak or the tank might be damaged from over tightening.

5. The venting of both tanks is somewhat vague in the directions. You need to remove the check valve in the original vent line and replace it with the new hose to the TT Tank. They supply a check valve that is now placed after the two tanks with the direction arrow facing away from the tanks.
Thanks for the information. A few questions.

Do you know if a quality "step drill bit" will work for the holes? I know the BMW mechanics at my local shop use this style when installing accessory plugs on the exterior plastics. they just mark the bit for the correct hole size, and it could be used for both sized holes (at least the one I have).

In reference to your #3 above: This is the part I was most concerned about damaging either removing it, or re-installing it. Do you have any pictures of the tool you made to re-install?

Referenceing #5: On page 10 of the instructions it talks about the venting hose, and I agree is seems as though they are a bit vague when it gets to this point. I don't know if you still have the instructions around to look at, but I was wondering if photo 29-2 is supposed to take the place of step 18 routing? It seems as though they have the European version then the USA version from the instructions.

I would have liked for a few more pictures of the initial breakdown - as far as what needs to be totally disconnected, and/or what just needs to have the cable ties cut and pulled back out of the way.
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:06 AM   #263
cobblecrazy
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One more question.

When I was at TT, I noticed they put two 1" by 1" velcro clippings on the top of the tank. What the tech told me was the bottom of the clamp for the hand protectors would rub on the top of the tank so these clippings were there to protect the tank from scratching.

They had the 20mm bar riser installed. I was wondering if you have had the same issue. I was also wondering if it might just be the angle they had the clamp at, and a slight adjustment up/down on the bars, or the clamp, might be enough to correct this. The 20mm risers were included in the kit I have and I was going to install them anyway.
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:29 AM   #264
reinerka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobblecrazy
One more question.

When I was at TT, I noticed they put two 1" by 1" velcro clippings on the top of the tank. What the tech told me was the bottom of the clamp for the hand protectors would rub on the top of the tank so these clippings were there to protect the tank from scratching.

They had the 20mm bar riser installed. I was wondering if you have had the same issue. I was also wondering if it might just be the angle they had the clamp at, and a slight adjustment up/down on the bars, or the clamp, might be enough to correct this. The 20mm risers were included in the kit I have and I was going to install them anyway.
Yes, I'm still looking into another solution. I've got the BMW protectors and I can adjust the handlebar to either hit with the protector bar or with the turn indicator (neither is acceptable to me). I've got the 20mm bar risers as well and they are about 5mm to short.

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Old 08-04-2010, 11:19 AM   #265
gr8ridn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobblecrazy
Thanks for the information. A few questions.

Do you know if a quality "step drill bit" will work for the holes? I know the BMW mechanics at my local shop use this style when installing accessory plugs on the exterior plastics. they just mark the bit for the correct hole size, and it could be used for both sized holes (at least the one I have).


In reference to your #3 above: This is the part I was most concerned about damaging either removing it, or re-installing it. Do you have any pictures of the tool you made to re-install?


Referenceing #5: On page 10 of the instructions it talks about the venting hose, and I agree is seems as though they are a bit vague when it gets to this point. I don't know if you still have the instructions around to look at, but I was wondering if photo 29-2 is supposed to take the place of step 18 routing? It seems as though they have the European version then the USA version from the instructions.


I would have liked for a few more pictures of the initial breakdown - as far as what needs to be totally disconnected, and/or what just needs to have the cable ties cut and pulled back out of the way.
A step drill might work, but the size of the steps has to be wider than the material being drilled. In the case of the tank you are boring through two layers of plastic molded together, the outer case and the inner liner. The combined thickness is about 8 mm as I recall. Most step drills are too narrow between stops for this. You will end up with a stepped hole, not good! I used a roto broach tool that cuts very similar to a hole saw. It cut a very clean hole with no fear of chipping the surfaces or cutting an eccentric hole. I have attached a photo of this tool. I am sure there are other tools to do the job, but I would not use a conventional drill bit, it won't leave a clean round hole you need to seal the fitting.

Attached is a photo of my Pump ring tool. I made it from a steel plate. It worked perfectly and didn't damage the retaining ring. I cut a 3/8 square hole so I use a torque wrench to install the assembly after completing the tank modifications. As I recall it called for 35 NM.

RE Venting: The end result was eliminating all the factory venting from the tank forward. A line is connected from the OEM tank to the "T" and then to the TT tank and out to atmosphere with no check valve between the tanks. This allows pressures to equalize between the tanks when transfer is occurring. The check valve is between the connecting T and atmosphere by the routing they show.


I had a DVD Rom to go by to remove and replace the rear sub frame. It was pretty straight forward. The wiring going to the rear is on the left side and after disconnecting the connectors on the tail and cutting the tie wraps you have to remove the ECM and and the rear brake reservoir. Thats about it. Take pictures of the routing and tie wrap locations so it all goes back together as it should.




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Old 08-04-2010, 11:32 AM   #266
gr8ridn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobblecrazy
One more question.

When I was at TT, I noticed they put two 1" by 1" velcro clippings on the top of the tank. What the tech told me was the bottom of the clamp for the hand protectors would rub on the top of the tank so these clippings were there to protect the tank from scratching.

They had the 20mm bar riser installed. I was wondering if you have had the same issue. I was also wondering if it might just be the angle they had the clamp at, and a slight adjustment up/down on the bars, or the clamp, might be enough to correct this. The 20mm risers were included in the kit I have and I was going to install them anyway.
My kit was supplied with the TT 20mm risers. I used the ROX risers I had previously installed. With this set up I have had no issues with tank clearance in lock to lock turns. I can't say if the TT riser is sufficient for clearance. I really like the ROX system in that it allows better options to get the handlebars moved to your preference of pull back and height. I am using the TT hand protectors, I don't know if other hand guards would be a problem like Bark Busters etc.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:23 PM   #267
cobblecrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8ridn
My kit was supplied with the TT 20mm risers. I used the ROX risers I had previously installed. With this set up I have had no issues with tank clearance in lock to lock turns. I can't say if the TT riser is sufficient for clearance. I really like the ROX system in that it allows better options to get the handlebars moved to your preference of pull back and height. I am using the TT hand protectors, I don't know if other hand guards would be a problem like Bark Busters etc.
Thanks for all the information.

At one time I was thinking about using the ralle-moto steering damper that has 20mm rise built in. I wonder if it might be usefull with the larger tank for off-road ventures (I use them on my dirt bikes), but I haven't made any plans to actually buy one yet. For right now I'm going to try the TT risers because that's what I have.

The DVD you talked about, was that the f800 maintenance manual one, or something else?
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:07 PM   #268
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Yes, I was referring to the BMW Motorrad Repair Manual, F Models on DVD
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:12 PM   #269
Bill the Duck
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OK, so I'm getting a garage full of gas fumes when the front tank is full. Anybody else having this issue? I see no obvious leaks.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:40 PM   #270
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Check to see if the check valve is installed between the "T" and atmosphere. Also the factory check valve at the rear of the BMW tank should have been removed. You have to be careful about overfilling the TT Tank. The cool stored gas from the underground tank will expand once it is filled into your tank. That check valve to atmosphere needs to have the arrow pointing in toward the tank so it restricts flow out but ready allows air flow in to equalize pressure in the tanks as fuel is consumed. Any of this wrong will result in pressure build up in the tanks. Done right the tanks remain equalized with atmosphere.
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