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Old 08-16-2010, 04:37 PM   #1
robert88 OP
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What size heim joints 4 struts.

I was wondering what size of heim joint is best to use for the struts. I've seen ppl use 1/2 -20 and 3/4 -16. Obviously bigger is most likely better, just would like a second opinion. Also where is the cheapest place to get these, whats the goin rate? I found 1/2-20 for 14.99 and 3/4-16 for 21.99 at the local farm store.
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:40 PM   #2
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert88
I was wondering what size of heim joint is best to use for the struts. I've seen ppl use 1/2 -20 and 3/4 -16. Obviously bigger is most likely better, just would like a second opinion. Also where is the cheapest place to get these, whats the goin rate? I found 1/2-20 for 14.99 and 3/4-16 for 21.99 at the local farm store.
We do not use heim ends for any mounts for various reasons. Some use them for the lower mounts. That is acceptable by some.
I would never use them for the upper struts.
If you are going to USE THEM ANYWHERE ANYHOW don't skimp on quality to try and save a buck or two. There is some junk out there. McMaster Carr online is a decent source as is speedway motors.. I would use 5/8" x 5/8".
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:10 PM   #3
northcountry
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mounts

Quote:
Originally Posted by claude
We do not use heim ends for any mounts for various reasons. Some use them for the lower mounts. That is acceptable by some.
I would never use them for the upper struts.
If you are going to USE THEM ANYWHERE ANYHOW don't skimp on quality to try and save a buck or two. There is some junk out there. McMaster Carr online is a decent source as is speedway motors.. I would use 5/8" x 5/8".

What type of mounts do you prefer?
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Old 08-17-2010, 05:10 AM   #4
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northcountry
What type of mounts do you prefer?
Eyenuts and clevises or eyenuts.
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:39 AM   #5
DirtyDR
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When I put mine together I used 3/4 16 hi strength heim joints from McMaster: http://www.mcmaster.com/#heim-joints/=8fz1bp

These are $38.00 apiece but you really don't want to scrimp on the Heim joints if you use them.

edit: I lied, I just looked up the invoice and I used 5/8 18 Ultra-Strength ends.
McMaster part # 4483T701
$28.00 apiece
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:47 PM   #6
Jerry Roebke
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My '02 Champion Escort came with 5/8" Heim Joints on the two bottom struts and they have held up well with the '01 Wing over 80K miles, which is more than I can say for the Champion Subframes they bolt up too.

My past sidecars had Eye/Clevis on all four struts and I would go that way if I were building custom mounts. However the Heim Joints do allow for slight alignment self correction on the bottom struts.

The one major down fall with Heim Joints on the bottom relates to their flexability if and when one of the upper struts of mounts breaks loose. See the above comment on the Champion Subframes.

With a single broken upper Strut/Mount and Heim Joints on the bottom the rig gets real limp real quick in corners. With Eye/Clevis on the bottom a rig will still flex a little with a broken upper strut but not to the same extent.
Been there, done that with both setups.
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:43 AM   #7
Richard-NL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude
We do not use heim ends for any mounts for various reasons.
Strange to hear, that somebody who thinks two eye nuts on top of each other can be used for a decent connection (which I disagree) is reluctant to use heim joints. Cannot figure out what size of heim joints are mentioned (inch/mm), but they sound pretty small to me. (We’re talking ball joint rod ends, aren’t we?)
I wouldn’t use heim joints for upper or lower struts either, but I think they can be used at the bottom links for reasons of alignment as mentioned by Jerry and adjustment. (They work even better for that purpose). Jerry's other points make sense to me too.

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Old 08-18-2010, 12:59 PM   #8
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard-NL
Strange to hear, that somebody who thinks two eye nuts on top of each other can be used for a decent connection (which I disagree) is reluctant to use heim joints. Cannot figure out what size of heim joints are mentioned (inch/mm), but they sound pretty small to me. (We’re talking ball joint rod ends, aren’t we?)
I wouldn’t use heim joints for upper or lower struts either, but I think they can be used at the bottom links for reasons of alignment as mentioned by Jerry and adjustment. (They work even better for that purpose). Jerry's other points make sense to me too.

Richard-NL
As mentioned previously I prefer the eyenut to clevis connections. You posted some pics of our hardware in aprevious thread. We do, however use eyenut to eyenut cionnections as well.
The main reason I personally do not care for heim end connections is that heims ends are made to move and can only be tightened in one plane. This is obviously acceptable to many and has obviously been used for many years. But so has the eyenut to eyenut connections that you scoff at :-)
With a heim end , spherical rod end or whatever we want to call them connections I feel that with them being what they are it does throw more responsibility onto the upper struts etc than if other connections were used.

Oh, 5/8" is 15.875 mm

And of course we still see MANY clevis ends made from flatbar with holes drilled through them welded to the end of some threaded rod for upper struts don't we? Engineers ? Come on guys whats up with that anyhow? And then many are chromed ...right? Lol. Hydrogen embrittlement ?
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Old 08-18-2010, 02:12 PM   #9
Richard-NL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude
As mentioned previously I prefer the eyenut to clevis connections.
So do I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude
The main reason I personally do not care for heim end connections is that heims ends are made to move and can only be tightened in one plane.

Correct, that they can be tightened in only one plane, but (we’re talking rigid sidecars) they can be used very well for easy installation. (On leaners, these are the only two connections holding the bike and sidecar together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude
This is obviously acceptable to many and has obviously been used for many years. But so has the eyenut to eyenut connections that you scoff at :-)

Can’t remember scoffing at anything. Must have missed the smiley.....
Two eye nuts connected just seem strange to me, since the last time I used anything similar was with my Meccano box. I haven’t seen this connection IRL just as long. Only in pics on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude
I feel that with them being what they are it does throw more responsibility onto the upper struts etc than if other connections were used.

If you are not sure about any connections, you shouldn’t use them. I have seen three part connections on sidecars that are bullet-proof and six part connections with even extra struts, that scare the shit out of me. Just look at the Dauntless frames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude
Oh, 5/8”is 15.875 mm

OK, small ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude
And of course we still see MANY clevis ends made from flatbar with holes drilled through them welded to the end of some threaded rod for upper struts don't we?

You’re kidding me. Pics? Would be really an eye-opener for me.

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Old 08-18-2010, 03:10 PM   #10
outfit
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How's about a new thread on 'subframe's and connection's'? I'm very un-impressed with alot of what's being said on this matter, in this thread. Some of it seem's down right dangerous to my way of thinking.

Karl.
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Old 08-19-2010, 07:04 AM   #11
claude
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Richard NL Wrote:
>>Originally Posted by Claude
And of course we still see MANY clevis ends made from flatbar with holes drilled through them welded to the end of some threaded rod for upper struts don't we? <<


You’re kidding me. Pics? Would be really an eye-opener for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Nope not kidding. I will try and post pics as soon as I get my camrea working again. We typically replace thesen things with eyenuts or clevises as a rule.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:43 PM   #12
Egads1
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I've got a 1987 Harley factory rig with well over 100k miles on it and it still has the original lower heim joints. I've had no problems at all with them.
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Old 08-21-2010, 07:04 AM   #13
the vicar
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must agree with egads,and that pains me to agree with him on anything. having said that,have pounded the snort out of 5 (i think) terraplanes some times way overloaded the heim joints were not a problem. in fact killed a deer last year, the heim joints were allright and still in use. the rest of the rig was tits up.
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