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Old 09-19-2010, 11:04 AM   #61
Hawk Medicine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriG
thanks, that will do the trick it think

now i just need to find new stainless bolts and someone that sells the Helicoil threads. cannot find anything on motobins.

anyone know where i can find stainless centre bolts and the helicoil's?
Try a really good industrial hardware supply outfit.
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:42 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriG
hi,

i have a valve related cover question for you.

both left and ride side of my center valve cover bolts rods are shredded (on the valve block side).

the bolts are double sided with reverse groves, the bolts now spin freely and pull any excess metal from the valve block, a proper seal is no longer there. i.e. oil leaks and generally undrivable. Does anyone have any experience with this who can help. short of buying new units, what is the best course of action, re-grove and use bigger bolt rods? then i would have issues with the original outer bolts. any ideas of engineering techniques would be welcomed.

1978 R80/7, newer type valve covers ;)

http://www.dimitriandnina.com/P1050044.jpg
You can repair the stripped threads in the head with a helicoil which is a steel spring-like coil that threads into the stripped-out hole. Helicoils can loosen over time and surprise you when you remove the cap nut - instead of the cap nut coming off the stud, the stud and cap nut comes out of the head with the helicoil affixed to it.

A better method is using a Time-Sert which is a solid threaded insert placed into the head. A kind of solid helicoil of sorts. A third method of repair is to replace the stud with a piece of 8 mm threaded rod about 74 mm long ( the original stud is 8 x 70 mm long ). The stud hole in the head already goes all the way through the head to the air space below the spark plug lead. The extra 4 mm threads into a nut slipped down in that airspace. The nut pulls up against the head and this stud will never pull out. I had to grind two flats of the nut to fit down in the space. I originally repaired both of mine with helicoils. When one helicoil backed out later I used the 74 mm all thread to be done with that one and made another one up if the helicoil ever fails on the the other side.
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dduelin screwed with this post 09-19-2010 at 05:47 PM
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Old 09-19-2010, 06:59 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dduelin
You can repair the stripped threads in the head with a helicoil which is a steel spring-like coil that threads into the stripped-out hole. Helicoils can loosen over time and surprise you when you remove the cap nut - instead of the cap nut coming off the stud, the stud and cap nut comes out of the head with the helicoil affixed to it.

A better method is using a Time-Sert which is a solid threaded insert placed into the head. A kind of solid helicoil of sorts. A third method of repair is to replace the stud with a piece of 8 mm threaded rod about 74 mm long ( the original stud is 8 x 70 mm long ). The stud hole in the head already goes all the way through the head to the air space below the spark plug lead. The extra 4 mm threads into a nut slipped down in that airspace. The nut pulls up against the head and this stud will never pull out. I had to grind two flats of the nut to fit down in the space. I originally repaired both of mine with helicoils. When one helicoil backed out later I used the 74 mm all thread to be done with that one and made another one up if the helicoil ever fails on the the other side.
A better method is using a Time-Sert? That is highly debatable so I will throw in the other side of that aurgument.

For starters, if installed correctly coil inserts (Helicoil is a brand name coil insert) don't back out. There main advantage over a Time-Sert is that the entire coil insert resists backing out via spring tension versus one small segment of a Time-Sert. BMW and every other factory that I can think of uses coil inserts to strengthen threads for this reason. Everyone should check out their airhead's engine's female threads. Lots of them have coil inserts from the factory. Have they pulled out? I have never seen one do it. Many of the threads for the transmission bolts as well as well as threads for the timing chain cover have coil inserts to strengthen the threads from the factory. Other brands use them as well. It's because they work better than Time-Serts in our opinions. I don't remember ever seeing a factory installed Time-Sert

People make two big mistakes installing coil inserts. The first is that they often use too short of an insert and the bolt doesn't get near enough purchase. The second thing is that they leave the ends of the inserts too close to the ends of the insert's threads. The ends of the insert are its weak points. They need to be well protected by at least a full turn of thread on BOTH sides of the insert.

You can always jam a nut behind the center studs hole and thread the stud into the nut. It works in a pinch.

supershaft screwed with this post 09-19-2010 at 07:08 PM
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:45 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft
A better method is using a Time-Sert? That is highly debatable so I will throw in the other side of that aurgument.

For starters, if installed correctly coil inserts (Helicoil is a brand name coil insert) don't back out. There main advantage over a Time-Sert is that the entire coil insert resists backing out via spring tension versus one small segment of a Time-Sert. BMW and every other factory that I can think of uses coil inserts to strengthen threads for this reason. Everyone should check out their airhead's engine's female threads. Lots of them have coil inserts from the factory. Have they pulled out? I have never seen one do it. Many of the threads for the transmission bolts as well as well as threads for the timing chain cover have coil inserts to strengthen the threads from the factory. Other brands use them as well. It's because they work better than Time-Serts in our opinions. I don't remember ever seeing a factory installed Time-Sert

People make two big mistakes installing coil inserts. The first is that they often use too short of an insert and the bolt doesn't get near enough purchase. The second thing is that they leave the ends of the inserts too close to the ends of the insert's threads. The ends of the insert are its weak points. They need to be well protected by at least a full turn of thread on BOTH sides of the insert.

You can always jam a nut behind the center studs hole and thread the stud into the nut. It works in a pinch.
I will be able to talk about the time sert soon as I am going to repair a spark plug hole with one on my Trooper.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:39 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper X
I will be able to talk about the time sert soon as I am going to repair a spark plug hole with one on my Trooper.
Geeze, Sniper. Don't tell me that you have a 4 cyl 1st gen Trooper. That'd make you a genuine throwback of some kind.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:48 AM   #66
DimitriG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft
A better method is using a Time-Sert? That is highly debatable so I will throw in the other side of that aurgument.

For starters, if installed correctly coil inserts (Helicoil is a brand name coil insert) don't back out. There main advantage over a Time-Sert is that the entire coil insert resists backing out via spring tension versus one small segment of a Time-Sert. BMW and every other factory that I can think of uses coil inserts to strengthen threads for this reason. Everyone should check out their airhead's engine's female threads. Lots of them have coil inserts from the factory. Have they pulled out? I have never seen one do it. Many of the threads for the transmission bolts as well as well as threads for the timing chain cover have coil inserts to strengthen the threads from the factory. Other brands use them as well. It's because they work better than Time-Serts in our opinions. I don't remember ever seeing a factory installed Time-Sert

People make two big mistakes installing coil inserts. The first is that they often use too short of an insert and the bolt doesn't get near enough purchase. The second thing is that they leave the ends of the inserts too close to the ends of the insert's threads. The ends of the insert are its weak points. They need to be well protected by at least a full turn of thread on BOTH sides of the insert.

You can always jam a nut behind the center studs hole and thread the stud into the nut. It works in a pinch.

thanks for all the solutions guys! this is why i love this forum, los of experience. thanks a bunch again.

will probably try and find a longer bolt and put a nut back there, as a don't think i'd get the heli-coil thing right first time. i am pretty sure it already had a helicoil repair anyway, it backed out real nice when undoing the center nut.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:35 AM   #67
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I prefer the two piece rocker covers. :
Here's one i had in earlier.

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Old 09-21-2010, 03:03 AM   #68
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Sibenrock still sells proper two piece ones , but not cheap compared to bodging them yourself/
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:20 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishkens
Geeze, Sniper. Don't tell me that you have a 4 cyl 1st gen Trooper. That'd make you a genuine throwback of some kind.
Dood, I'm like Cromagnon! I have a 86, 91, and a 97 trooper! My 97 spit a plug out about 3k miles after i bought it because the PO (fukin dumass) didn't tighten them right when he replaced them before I got it. The 91 I got for $100.00 and it is in excellent shape save for the hole in the oil pan where a rod bit came flying out after the girl i bought it from let her EXTEREEEMMMEEE boyfrend off road it one night.
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:31 AM   #70
lucky6600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steptoe
I prefer the two piece rocker covers. :
Here's one i had in earlier.


What's the benefit for the 2 pieces cover? Beside swimsuit?
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:23 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky6600
What's the benefit for the 2 pieces cover? Beside swimsuit?
Better sealing when the head is warped?
also if you've got a couple ground up valve covers, you can halve them and make 1 outa 2 !!
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:47 PM   #72
fishkens
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Originally Posted by Sniper X
Dood, I'm like Cromagnon! I have a 86, 91, and a 97 trooper!
Nice.

I think my pal Larry cried when he sold his 85 Trooper. He loved that thing. I never quite understood the Trooper thing until he explained it to me.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:01 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by mymindsok View Post
These are nice.....

Any one have a set for sale?



Bringing this back from the dead. Anyone have any more info on these valve covers other than what was previously mentioned?
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:24 PM   #74
Hawk Medicine
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What more could you possibly want to know? They're CC Products "Cool Covers" and they're NLA as of a long time ago.

If you advertise on the web, you can sometimes find a used set for a couple hundred bucks or so but mine aren't for sale. Yet...
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:57 AM   #75
jtwind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky6600 View Post
What's the benefit for the 2 pieces cover? Beside swimsuit?
The two piece covers were developed for rally racing. You could carry just 1/2 a cover as a spare. Mostly a weight saving thing.
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