Smib Trans Lab 2011

[blaster11]

All right, for anyone who is interested in doing the TLH this year (2011) GSA_PILOT, Dorito, and myself and possibly EOD3MC are going to start our trip planning here shortly. Right now we are probably looking to leave around the 15th of August, give or take a little, and haven't locked down a total length time, as of yet. We will probably need at least two weeks, that's where the planning comes into play. We will probably do the trip clockwise so up through Quebec and across, then over to Newfoundland and up to see the Viking landing. After that down to Gros Morne and across to Saint John and down for the long ferry ride to N. Sydney. Once back to Nova Scotia we will head up around the Cabot Trail and then who knows from there.

Bikes: GSA_PILOT will be riding a 06(?) GSA, tires unknown, Dorito will be riding a lowered 10 F650GS with Heindenau tires, EOD3MC will be riding his 08(?) KLR, tires unknown, and I will be riding a 06 GSA with a TKC on front and a Heindenau on back hopefully. All makes and models are welcome!

It should be a good time but some long days, so just figure its 5000+ miles over 14 +/- days so we have to average 357 miles a day. I am sure some days will be longer and some will be shorter but as you can see we will need to keep moving.

Communications/safety gear: Dana and I are running the Scala G4 blue tooth communications and I think GSA_PILOT was working on a Motorola FRS setup with EOD, so this should provide others with communication options if you so chose/want to communicate. I will also have my SPOT to not only track the trip for us but for others to watch, and for the HELP function as well.

Accommodations: That is still open for discussion but GSA_PILOT would like to camp most of the time to keeps costs down and encourage others to participate. If we do camp a lot I'm hoping that since we are going late August that the bugs will be at a minimum, I had very few bugs this year in Newfoundland during the late August time frame.

Planning: We hope to plan this out fairly well but not so much that it takes the fun out of the trip. What I mean is we will get all the information on camping, hotels, GAS, Ferry rides, weather, road reports, oh and did I mention gas so that everyone feels comfortable enough that they could do the trip by themselves even though they aren't. We should probably start identifying locations where we can get together occasionally and look at maps and chat about what we have learned. August is right around the corner so we should probably plan early and often because once spring gets here I know I will be back riding and not planning.

That's all for now and I hope to see you in Labrador!

Link to RFLAGG42 SPOT report for TLH 2010 http://www.spotadventures.com/trip/view?trip_id=216933
Link to Squidmark's ride report for TLH 2010 http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=597083
Link to Lakota's ride report for TLH 2010 http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...ghlight=Lakota
Link to markbvt ride reports for TLH 2009/2010
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502224
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=620129
Link to SQUIDVENTURE Trans Labrador report for 2010 http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=618436
Another great resource http://www.ridetherock.com/forums/

[blaster11]

Name (screen name fine)
2.) Steed of choice for trip
3.) Tires you plan to use (really just curious)
4.) Do you have any helmet communications gear (FRS, SCALA, etc.)
5.) Preferred lodging (camping, hotels, don't care, or would like some combination of camping/lodging)
6.) Maximum length of trip you can do (14 days, 21 days, or unlimited time)
7.) Preferred dates for trip (15 September - 02 August as an example)

I will add and delete as necessary, these are the people who have expressed interest:

1. Blaster11/Bruce: 06 GSA, Heidenau(rear)/TKC(Front) or combination, Scala G4, Combination of camping/Lodging, 23 days, 13 August - 05 September
2. Dorito/Dana: 10 F798 GS, Heidenau(rear)/TKC(front), Scala G4, Combination of camping/Lodging, 23 days, 13 August - 05 September
3. GSA_PILOT/Lance: 07 GSA, Tourance/TKC, Bluetooth, Camping/Lodging - doesn't care, 16 days, August 12 - 27
4. OUT EOD3MC/Dave: 09 KLR, D606 rear, ?? Front, Yes, Combination of camping/Lodging, 21 days, Preference is early September
5. *6USMC6: KTM SMR or ??, Scorpions, ? Scala G4, Combination of camping/Lodging, unlimited, Late August - early September
6. OUT VACommuter: 02 KLR w/enduro sidecar, Kenda 270, under consideration, Combination of camping/Lodging, 14 - 20 days, prefer August
7. Backlash: 09 GSA, TKC/Tourance, arm waving and finger pointing, Cell phone/rental sat phone, Combination of camping/Lodging, unlimited, open on dates
8. 4badboyz: 06 KTM 950A, Karoos/Scorpions, no comms, Combination of camping/Lodging, prefer 14 days but 21 possible, leaving Toronto August 28th returning Sept 10-17th
9. OMG_WTF: 2011 f800gs, TKC 80 Front/K60 Rear, Scala G4, I can just camp wherever, I prefer to camp at sites with running water, 21 days, July/August.
10. Pfuey: 10 GSA, Michelin Anakee 2, Scala G4, 70% lodging/30% hotel, 21 days, Hmmm...July, August or early September
11. CdnX (aka David): 09 GSA, TKC 80 F&R (Considering the Anakees but will likely plan for the worst and run the knobs), SCALA Q2, Preferred lodging = A bit of both, not fussy but being eaten by flies gets old fast, 14 days, Departure is 15 July. Counter-Clockwise.
12. DiscoDino (Nadim Samara): 2007 G650 Xchallenge, D606 front, D908 rear, I have a Whistler, but pending needs, I'm willing to switch to a new system, Combo of camping/lodging, Maximum length of trip 14 days, Preferred dates for trip: July 1st to July 11th
13. Zubinblack and Wardo, Weestrom and KLR, TKC's and Heidenau, Thinking about it, we've used them before and they are nice, but the FRS system we had was fussy, We are doing a mix, 14 days,
departing the Brattleboro area on 7/26 and returning 8/8 or 8/9.
14. Craig - aka C-Stain, DL1000 V-Strom, TKC80s, No coms, camping is fine, 7 - 9 days, (August 7 - 22) I can leave from Nova Scotia or Newfoundland, so the dates can vary based on that. **Looking for wingmate**
15. PMJ204: 2008 DL650, Not sure yet, Scala Q2, Camping/lodging, Max length 9 days, Preferred dates 12 August - 21 August
16. Leboost: Starting June 18th with my Strom, from Montreal on a fresh set of tkc's for 14 days CW route, mostly sleeping where there's hot water not too far.

* = Questionable

[blaster11]

Passport: In case you need one, here is a link which should get you going. http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738.html

Someone else just brought this to my attention please read the thread. Its about felonies and crossing the border, apparently DUI's are considered felonies and they will turn you away...just something else to think about.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696179

Credit card/ATM: Call your bank and let them know you will be out of the country/lots of gas charges (may save you/us some problems)
Easy Pass for tolls (optional but it can save a significant amount of time with a group)
Maryland: http://ezpassmd.com/en/home/index.shtml
Virginia: https://www.ezpassva.com/Default.asp...ookieSupport=1
Pennsylvania: http://www.paturnpike.com/ezpass/ezpassINTRO.htm
New Jersey: http://ezpassnj.com/
West Virginia: http://www.transportation.wv.gov/tur...EZPassFAQ.aspx

Trip cost (so far as planned)

Gas: Based on 5500 miles @ $5.00 per gallon average
40 MPG: $687
45 MPG: $611
50 MPG: $550
55 MPG: $500
60 MPG: $458

Ferries
Total for all ferries via Port Au Basque: $171.50
Total for all ferries via Argentia: $265.50

Lodging: $75.00 average per night
5 nights: $375.00
10 nights:$750.00
15 nights: $1125.00

Food: Lets just say $25.00 per day, it may be more or less depending on what you carry and your eating habits, I found Newfoundland a bit more expensive than the mainland.
14 days: $350.00
21 days: $525.00

Trip total cost: (too many combination's but you get the idea)
Total 14 day trip: Gas $550.00 + Argentia ferry $265.50 + 7 nights (50%) of hotel $525.00 + Food $350.00 = $1690.50
Total 21 day trip: Gas $550.00 + Argentia ferry $265.50 + 10 nights (47%) of hotel $750.00 + Food $525.00 = $2090.50

Travel Information
I would strongly suggest that everyone use the link below and get a map, travel guide, and visitor information package!
Newfoundland/Labrador: http://www.newfoundlandlabrador.com/...ravelBrochures

Additional information
Nova Scotia: http://www.novascotia.com/en/home/default.aspx
New Brunswick: http://www.tourismnewbrunswick.ca/
Camping locations North America: http://www.uscampgrounds.info/

Weather information
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/canada_e.html

Ferry information

Labrador to Newfoundland (1hr 45 minutes)
http://www.tw.gov.nl.ca/FerryServices/
Cost: $11.50
Tel: 1-866-535-2567 (within the province)
Tel: 1-709-535-0810 (outside the toll free area)
A non-refundable deposit for passenger reservations $10.00, for commercial vehicle reservations $50.00.
All other traffic is on a first come, first serve basis (reservations not required but recommended). All traffic to check in at dockside one hour prior to departure.
For Local Information call:
Tel: 1-709-877-2222 (St. Barbe)
Tel: 1-418-461-2889 (Blanc Sablon)

Newfoundland to Nova Scotia
Port Au Basque to North Sydney (day 4.5 to 6 hours/night 4.5 to 8 hours transit time)
http://www.marine-atlantic.ca/en/schedule/nsyarg.asp

Adult age 13 - 64: $28.75
Motorcycle: $41.25
Motorcycle with sidecar: $60.75

4 Berth cabin (day): $44.95
4 Berth cabin (night): $111.75
2 Berth cabin (day): $44.95
2 Berth cabin (night): $104.75

Argentia to North Sydney (14 to 15 hours transit time)
http://www.marine-atlantic.ca/en/schedule/nsyarg.asp

Adult age 13 - 64: $80.50
Motorcycle: $83.50
Motorcycle with sidecar: $124.25

4 Berth cabin: $152.75
Dormitory sleeper: $28.75

Customers may make a reservation by calling the toll free reservations line at 1-800-341-7981; at Marine Atlantic’s website at www.marine-atlantic.ca, or at one of Marine Atlantic’s terminals located in Port aux Basques, NL; Argentia, NL; or, North Sydney, NS up to 3 hours prior to scheduled departure time provided there is space available.
A fuel surcharge of 19.7% will be applied to all new reservations for travel commencing on or after April 25, 2010. Changes to the fuel surcharge will be posted to the Corporation’s website.
The fuel surcharge is applied to the cost of transportation (passengers, passenger vehicles and commercial vehicles). It is not applied to accommodations and services on board of the vessels.

Nova Scotia to New Brunswick
http://www.nfl-bay.com/

Adult age 13 - 64: $40.00
Motorcycle: $50.00
Motorcycle with sidecar: $50.00

Fuel surcharge – Passenger Vehicle: $20.00 CDN each way
Digby, Nova Scotia terminal
Phone: 902-245-2116
Fax: 902-245-5360

Saint John, New Brunswick terminal

Phone: 506-649-7777
Fax: 506-649-7708
comments@canadaferry.com

Bike Insurance and Finance Info:
You should contact your insurance company to receive Canada specific ins cards. It usually takes 2 weeks or so for them to do them. Also, you may want to review any verbiage on leased and/or financed vehicles on your loan paperwork. BMW, for example, requests to be notified if the bike is leaving the country. I imagine both of these items are only required if the bike is in accident...


Lodging Information has been moved to Post # 7 due to size limitation

[blaster11]

Here is my initial cut with way more work to come!


FINAL GPX FILES can be downloaded from Ride Report starting on page 14

View TLH 2011 in a larger map">
View TLH 2011 in a larger map

Tentative destination schedule
1. La Plata, MD (start point)
2. Baie-Comeau, Quebec
3. Labrador city, Labrador
3a. Esker http://www.ridetherock.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5838
4. Happy valley – Goose bay, Labrador
5. L’Anse Aux Meadows (Viking landing), Newfoundland http://www.pc.gc.ca/eng/lhn-nhs/nl/meadows/index.aspx
5a.Gros Morne, Newfoundland http://www.pc.gc.ca/eng/pn-np/nl/grosmorne/index.aspx
5b. Gander Air museum http://www.naam.ca/
5c.B-36 plane crash http://www.ridetherock.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2573
6. St. John’s, Newfoundland http://stjohnskiosk.com/
7. Argentia, Newfoundland (ferry ride to North Sydney)
8. Cabot trail (great views) http://www.cabottrail.travel/
8a. Meat cove(spectacular view and a little restaurant)
9. Margaree Harbour
10. Halifax, Nova Scotia http://www.halifaxinfo.com/
11. Lunenburg, Nova Scotia http://www.explorelunenburg.ca/
12. Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
13. Digby, Nova Scotia (ferry ride to St. John)
14. St. John, New Brunswick/Bay of Fundy http://www.fundyfun.com/
15. Mount Washington, NH http://www.mountwashington.org/
16. La Plata, MD (end point)

Tentative mileage schedule (remember we can stop along the way and camp to potentially shorten or lengthen ride days)
Day 1: Destination: Montreal, Canada Daily mileage: 610 (get to Canada first day)
Day 2: Destination: Manic 5 Daily mileage: 555 Total miles traveled: 1165
Day 3: Destination: Churchill Falls Daily Mileage: 381 Total miles traveled: 1546
Day 4: Destination: Esker and back to Churchill Falls Daily Mileage: 230ish Total miles traveled: 1776 (Esker is 112 miles west of CHF)
Day 5: Destination: Happy Valley/Goose bay Daily Mileage: 180 Total miles traveled: 1956
Day 6: Destination: Port Hope Simpson Daily Mileage: 260 Total miles traveled: 2216
Day 7: Destination: L'Anse Aux Meadows Daily Mileage: 226 Total miles traveled: 2442 (Ferry ride has to be booked early)
Day 8: Destination: Gros Morne Daily Mileage: 239 Total miles traveled: 2681
Day 9: Destination: Gros Morne - day off to see the sights!
Day 10: Destination: St. John's, Newfoundland Daily Mileage: 557 Total miles traveled: 3238 (Gander Air museum/B36)
Day 11: Destination: Argentia, Newfoundland Daily Mileage: 85 Total miles traveled: 3323 (Day trips/rest/night Ferry ride)
Day 12: Destination: Cabot trail/Halifax, Nova Scotia Daily Mileage: 432 Total miles traveled: 3755 (Ferry ride/Cabot trail/Meat Cove)
Day 13: Destination: Digby, Nova Scotia Daily Mileage: 295 Total miles traveled: 4050 (Ferry ride)
Day 14: Destination: Mount Washington, NH Daily Mileage: 339 Total miles traveled: 4389 (Bay of Fundy/ride Mt. Washington)
Day 15: Bust a$$ for home or break it up for an additional night? 622 miles home to La Plata from Mt. Washington

Dana and I will probably spend a few more days in Newfoundland this time trail riding and such, we haven't worked out the schedule or trails yet but I will post up after some more research.

[blaster11]

Gas: If you can't go 250 miles fully loaded on a tank you may want look at ways to carry additional fuel, for myself I plan on carrying an additional gallon.
Riding gear (weather): wide swings in temperature and conditions
Tires: Many have done it on street tires but the majority recommend something more aggressive, be honest about your abilities on high speed dirt/gravel and choose your tire wisely! If not it may cost you some body parts (motorcycle/human). Their may be a few side trips/camping spots that are off road as well, such as going to Esker where a more aggressive tire would be well suited.
Maintenance: Make sure all your checks and services are up to date, we are talking about a 5000+ mile trip.
Passport: In case you need one, here is a link which should get you going. http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738.html
Credit card/ATM: Call your bank and let them know you will be out of the country/lots of gas charges (may save you/us some problems)
Easy Pass for tolls (optional but it can save a significant amount of time with a group)
Maryland: http://ezpassmd.com/en/home/index.shtml
Virginia: https://www.ezpassva.com/Default.asp...ookieSupport=1
Pennsylvania: http://www.paturnpike.com/ezpass/ezpassINTRO.htm
New Jersey: http://ezpassnj.com/
West Virginia: http://www.transportation.wv.gov/tur...EZPassFAQ.aspx

Spare key (mandatory)
Gas can (almost mandatory)
First Aid kit (almost mandatory)
Camera
Maps and/or GPS
Bug spray and/or bug net
Medication: Please bring what you need plus a little extra just in case something happens
Medication for sea sickness, we will be riding several ferries
Cell phone (optional)
Satellite phone (optional)
Calling card (optional)
Flashlight/headlamp with spare batteries
SPOT (optional)
Sunglasses
Dust mask (?)
Tire repair (tools to remove wheel, spoons, patches, plugs, bead breaker, compressor/CO2 cartridges, etc)

Make your own packing list: http://micapeak.com/checklists/mclist.html
Emergency medical form: http://micapeak.com/tools/medform.html (Mandatory for everyone)

[RFlagg42]

Subscribed

I will also keep track of the Vegas betting lines and am taking suggestions on other possible proposition bets...

Over/under on number of days it will rain during their trip: 5

Over/under on number of people who actually make the trip: 4.5

1st person to get in a physical altercation:
- Dorito: +200
- GS_ADV_Pilot -150
- Blaster +400
- EOD3MC +750
- Jointsforsale +275
- 6USMC6 +150

[note: for you non gamblers, +200 means you bet $100 to win $200, -150 means you bet $150 to win $100]

Enjoy the planning,
Eric

[blaster11]

Lodging

Labrador city
Wabush hotel (formerly known as the Sir Wilfred Grenfell Hotel)
Wabush/Labrador city
Air-Conditioned, Chinese/Canadian Restaurant, Dining Room/Lounge/Meeting/Banquet Facilities, Barber Shop, Room/ Laundry Services, Color/Cable/Remote-Controlled TV, Coffee Machines, Voice Mail, Private Bath/Shower, Massage Clinic, High Speed Wireless Internet all Rooms, fitness Room, Fully Equipped meeting Rooms and catering Services.
9 Grenfell Drive, Wabush
52.9058, -66.8739
Jan 1 - Dec 31 (24 Hours)
+1 (709) 282 3221
+1 (709) 282 3222
Fax: +1 (709) 282 3061
www.wabushhotel.com
info@wabushhotel.com

PJ's Inn by the Lake

Labrador City
Wireless Internet Access, Private Bathroom Each Room, Full Breakfast, Telephone, Cable TV, Near Shopping and Restaurants, Adjacent to Snowmobile Trails, Laundry Services Available, Free Pick-up at Airport..
606 Tamarack Drive, Labrador City
52.9365, -66.9107
Jan 1 - Dec 31
Toll Free: +1 (888) 944 6648
+1 (888) 944 6648
Fax: +1 (709) 944 5404
www.pjsinnbythelake.com
pjsinnbythelake@crrstv.net

Twin Cities Bed & Breakfast
Labrador City
Double/Single Beds, Continental Breakfast, TV/Telephone/VCR/Radio In Each Room, Hiking, Golfing, Great Skiing & Snowmobiling on Professional Groomed Trails, Dog Sled Races, the Largest Caribou Herd in the World.
325 Viking Crescent, Labrador City
52.9445, -66.9178
Jan 1 - Dec 31 (7am - 12pm)
+1 (709) 944 2875
+1 (709) 944 4053
Fax: +1 (709) 944 4053

Carol Inn
Labrador City
Banquet/Meeting Facilities, Fine Dining, Pub & Eatery, Family Restaurant, Late Check-Outs Available Upon request, Non-Smoking Rooms, Gift Shop, Kitchenettes, All in Air Condition Comfort.
215 Drake Avenue, Labrador City
52.9447, -66.9054
Jan 1 - Dec 31 (24 Hours)
Toll Free: +1 (888) 799 7736
+1 (888) 799 7736
Fax: +1 (709) 944 7110
carolinn.ca
carolinn@crrstv.net

Two Seasons Inn
Labrador City
High Speed Internet Service in all Rooms, Wireless and Cable, and Exercise Room
96 Avalon Drive, Labrador City
52.944, -66.9038
Jan 1 - Dec 31 (Open 24 hours - 7 days a week)
Toll Free: +1 (800) 670 7667
+1 (800) 670 7667
Fax: +1 (709) 944 6852
www.twoseasonsinn.com
twoseasonsreservations@yahoo.ca


Churchill Falls
Midway Travel Inn
2 Ressigieu Drive
709-925-3211
1-800-229-3269
Fax:709-925-3544
WI-FI
http://www.midwaylabrador.ca/
http://www.destinationlabrador.com/g..._falls_inn.htm

Goose Bay
Royal Suites
3 Royal Avenue
P.O. Box 69 - Stn. B
Happy Valley - Goose Bay
Newfoundland & Labrador
Canada A0P 1E0
Telephone: (709) 896-2456
Toll Free: (888) 440-2456
Facsimile: (709) 896-5501
http://www.royalinnandsuites.ca/location.html

Port Hope Simpson
Alexis Hotel
3 Alexis Drive
Port Hope Simpson, NL A0K 4E0 Canada

Plum Point motel
Main Rd
Plum Point, NL A0K 4A0, Canada
Phone: (709) 247-2533
About 5 miles South of St Barbe Ferry landing

Blanc-Sablon
Hotel Motel Blanc-Sablon
1043 Boul. Camille Marcoux
C.P. 358
Blanc-Sablon, Quebec GOG 1w0
Tel: 418-461-3222
Fax: 418-461-2908
http://www.blancsablon.ca/map.html
email: anthonyd@globetrotter.net

[GSA_PILOT]

Thanks Bruce for setting up. Now it feels real. Here is a placeholder map I've had for a year If you lurkers are wondering what is up with this route... Bruce and I will have a SMIB ROUTE MAP like this on the 1st post as we design and morph the trip to meet our needs and wants.

[GSA_PILOT]

Originally Posted by RFlagg42

I will also keep track of the Vegas betting lines and am taking suggestions on other possible proposition bets... 1st person to get in a physical altercation: GS_ADV_Pilot -150

You are awesome... Please keep this up... love the odds. I guess like insider trading I shouldn't mention that I have consciously tried to put a governor on my "going to red" pissedoffmeter. I actual got cut off yesterday and didn't chase down the cager and blind them while maiming their passenger. But as long as I can claim PTSD... who knows There are better bets out there I'd put 10 on Dana... and 10 more on who the first victim is

[Wolfgang55]

I know there is major work being done to complete the road connection between Happy Valley & Cartwright, any word as to how far this project has moved along. It could beat a ferry ride, at least for some.

[RFlagg42]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang55

I know there is major work being done to complete the road connection between Happy Valley & Cartwright, any word as to how far this project has moved along. It could beat a ferry ride, at least for some.

Although there are some minor stretches that they are still working on, the road between Goose Bay and Cartwright is now passable. I was told by locals that by Summer of 2011, the ferry between Goose Bay and Cartwright may be out of service.

[6USMC6]

1st person to get in a physical altercation:
- Dorito: +200
- GS_ADV_Pilot -150
- Blaster +400
- EOD3MC +750
- Jointsforsale +275
- 6USMC6 +150

The "+150" altercation scale is probably accurate, based on the amount of steel and titanium plugged into various joints in my inner structure - none of which has the appropriate bore size of .45 unfortunately. Oh well, probably better since we'll be in a foreign country and they frown on that stuff.

I do wonder (seriously) if we can bring a shotgun for bear protection while camping? Or is this not an issue where we are going? I recall seeing a few blacks in Quebec in '82 but that would (should?) only be relevant if we camp off the grid.

[Sjoerd Bakker]

The road from Goose Bay to Cartwright is completed as a great, fast gravel highway although it will be a side trip to get to Cartwright from the new road.
GB to next gas stop at Port Hope Simpson is 400km.
As for bringing a shotgun to protect against bears, not needed.However you might consider bringing cholesterol reducing drugs to feed the bears in case one does take a liking to one of you.

And watch out for the speed traps

[lakota]

I would recommend crossing the St Lawrence at Quebec and ride up the north side of the river. Saves time and takes out the loss of time at the ferry and the cost. Markbvt told me when i was planning my trip that the north side was a more interesting ride.

[GSA_PILOT]

Originally Posted by Sjoerd Baker

The road from Goose Bay to Cartwright is completed as a great, fast gravel highway although it will be a side trip to get to Cartwright from the new road. GB to next gas stop at Port Hope Simpson is 400km. As for bringing a shotgun to protect against bears, not needed.However you might consider bringing cholesterol reducing drugs to feed the bears in case one does take a liking to one of you.
And watch out for the speed traps

This is what I was hoping for. If you are lurking and find this thread... please post your RR link and any advice i.e. camping gear... place to hotel, awesome view, or Lat and Long worth seeing. I would much rather get the good scoop from the vets so our adventure is not a shoulda, woulda, coulda experience.

Thanks to all so far who have given their 2 cents... love to leave with 500 in suggestions