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Old 12-14-2010, 04:03 PM   #226
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Stop, calibrate the engine!
Poolside's back with a brand new invention!


Jake, Jake, Jake ... eww.
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:32 PM   #227
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Enabling technology:



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Old 12-14-2010, 04:46 PM   #228
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So you're an enabler, not a disabler?

That comes later, like the next morning?

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Old 12-14-2010, 05:13 PM   #229
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So, next Sunday?

No rain in the forecast, for what that's worth.

Seriously though, you bringing that moonshine home?



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Old 12-14-2010, 08:16 PM   #230
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Quote:
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No rain in the forecast, for what that's worth.

Seriously though, you bringing that moonshine home?
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Old 12-14-2010, 08:45 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by GSQuester
I would like to hear from Poolside, specifically about his "hotrodding" device, and whether there's any likelihood of it potentially causing premature failure of any stock components.

But I'm wondering if it isn't also possible that regardless of why they've designed the fuel delivery system and algorithms to work the way they do, messing with those parameters could cause reliability problems...

Hey there Quester. That's a good question.

The devices are not capable of damaging any hardware component on the bike. And electrically, there's no way for the circuits to malfunction in a way that could harm any electrical component on the bike.

As a side note, it isn't really possible for the ECU to damage the motor. What I mean by that is, there isn't any operational mode of the ECU program that can cause damage to the motor.


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Old 12-14-2010, 08:59 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spagthorpe
Let us know if you have any mods in mind that you know for a fact actually make a real difference. Post dyno results too. Except for the turbo kits a few vendors used to sell many years ago, I don't think I've ever seen any real performance mods for GSs. Usually just items that change the "feel" of the bike.
I'm thinking that if you haven't seen any, it could be, as is often the case, a narrow frame of reference for the term 'performance'.

This is a good topic, let's talk about it. First though, could you tell me what you mean by 'dyno'. It sounds like you may be referring to the so-called 'eddy current' dyno. I want to be sure we're on the same page.


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Old 12-15-2010, 12:31 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
As a side note, it isn't really possible for the ECU to damage the motor. What I mean by that is, there isn't any operational mode of the ECU program that can cause damage to the motor.

Hey Poolside, thanks for the assurances. I don't know that much about how these systems work, so have been doing my best to understand the explanations you and others have provided so far. Part of my concern about how tweaking things like how rich or lean the bike runs was triggered when I read this post:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=65

From this it seems like the ECU *could* theoretically cause engine damage if it adjusted the AF mixture to run in the "red box" fosters discusses. Guess I just have to trust your device won't do that.
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:15 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSQuester View Post
Part of my concern about how tweaking things like how rich or lean the bike runs was triggered when I read this post:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=65

From this it seems like the ECU *could* theoretically cause engine damage if it adjusted the AF mixture to run in the "red box" fosters discusses.

I get you, a lot of people think that about AF ratios.

Here's the graph from the link you posted.



See the three vertical dotted lines? The one in the middle is the 14.7 ratio. To the right of that line is a leaner mixture, to the left is richer. Modern catalyst-equipped motors are operated at a 14.7 AF ratio.

Start from the 14.7 dotted line and lean the mixture, looking to the right on the chart. As the AF is leaned past 14.7, the CHT and EGT curves both fall off.

The thing is, the ECU already operates the motor at peak temperatures the majority of the time. So if less fuel is injected, the temperature from combustion is reduced.


Notes. The dotted line on the right is the Best Efficiency AFR, and the dotted line on the left is Best Power AFR.

The bottom curve is Efficiency. It is the inverse of Fuel Consumption.


(The issue from the other post is related to unequal cylinder temperatures, which is an unavoidable reality with the majority of aircraft motors and their fuel delivery systems. The post isn't directly related to the typical vehicle ECU and catalyst-equipped motor.)


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Poolside screwed with this post 12-15-2010 at 03:18 PM
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:28 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post



Neat chart. For those who don't feel like digging deeper, the acronyms are

EGT = exhuast gas temp
CHT = cylinder head temp
ICP = internal cylinder pressure
HP = you can figure this one out
BSFC = brake-specific fuel consumption


You've mentioned that your system will be easily adjustable, but is that in the garage or on the road? (At a gas station, that is. I'm not asking for on-the-go adjustment.) I'd like to be able to select leaner operation for fuel-efficient highway cruising, but then take 10 seconds to flip it into a richer mode for maximum hooliganism once I get where I'm going.

The new K1600s have selectable maps for cruising vs. sport. Gotta keep ahead of the joneses, you know....
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:42 AM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by space View Post

I'd like to be able to select leaner operation for fuel-efficient highway cruising, but then take 10 seconds to flip it into a richer mode for maximum hooliganism once I get where I'm going.

The new K1600s have selectable maps for cruising vs. sport. Gotta keep ahead of the joneses, you know....
The K I'm chasin is usually KTM and you really need to stay in the sweat spot with the Pyg if you want to stay ahead of the dust cloud.

With 90k miles on the clock I'm hoping the new "Black Box" will add a little after burner to the old Boxer.

Christmas is comin guy's
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:28 PM   #237
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so far so good...

Okay, another question for you Poolside. This time safety related, and again, please pardon my ignorance if my lack of understanding of how these GS's work makes this a really dumb question.

Based on everything I've been reading here (and without actually ripping apart my new bike to check) it seems like these GS's have a "throttle by wire" system where there is no actual physical linkage between the throttle and the fuel valve(s), but rather everything is managed electronically. Is that right?

If so, then that's another potential area of concern if your device is going to be changing or overriding how the ECU responds to throttle inputs by using some kind of microcontroller connected up to the system. A device that just spoofs the air temperature sensor readings is one thing, and seems inherently fairly safe. But if yours do more than that, then there's a chance that a bug in your code could do something unexpected like switch the ECU into the Overrun Fuel Cutoff subroutine right when I need the throttle to get me through an intersection and out of the path of a semi.

Call me paranoid, but I'm an engineer and have seen how easily little design flaws in electronics or software bugs can trigger bizarre and completely unanticipated behaviour. That's one advantage large organizations like BMW have over one or two person enterprises - they have teams of people dedicated to all the detailed code reviews, fault testing, and validation that are required to ensure product safety... and even then problems can still crop up - can you say Toyota?
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:34 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSQuester View Post
Okay, another question for you Poolside. This time safety related, and again, please pardon my ignorance if my lack of understanding of how these GS's work makes this a really dumb question.

Based on everything I've been reading here (and without actually ripping apart my new bike to check) it seems like these GS's have a "throttle by wire" system where there is no actual physical linkage between the throttle and the fuel valve(s), but rather everything is managed electronically. Is that right?

If so, then that's another potential area of concern if your device is going to be changing or overriding how the ECU responds to throttle inputs by using some kind of microcontroller connected up to the system. A device that just spoofs the air temperature sensor readings is one thing, and seems inherently fairly safe. But if yours do more than that, then there's a chance that a bug in your code could do something unexpected like switch the ECU into the Overrun Fuel Cutoff subroutine right when I need the throttle to get me through an intersection and out of the path of a semi.

Call me paranoid, but I'm an engineer and have seen how easily little design flaws in electronics or software bugs can trigger bizarre and completely unanticipated behaviour. That's one advantage large organizations like BMW have over one or two person enterprises - they have teams of people dedicated to all the detailed code reviews, fault testing, and validation that are required to ensure product safety... and even then problems can still crop up - can you say Toyota?
Good old throttle by "cable" but a valid point... unless Poolside says otherwise not valid in this instance though.
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:19 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by space View Post
You've mentioned that your system will be easily adjustable, but is that in the garage or on the road? (At a gas station, that is. I'm not asking for on-the-go adjustment.)

I'd like to be able to select leaner operation for fuel-efficient highway cruising, but then take 10 seconds to flip it into a richer mode for maximum hooliganism once I get where I'm going.

The new K1600s have selectable maps for cruising vs. sport. Gotta keep ahead of the joneses, you know....
It's adjustable while on the trail, at a trail-side stop like you mentioned. The adjustment is via a jumper setting. There are 4 settings. Call them low, medium, high, and no change.


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Old 12-15-2010, 09:13 PM   #240
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It's adjustable while on the trail, at a trail-side stop like you mentioned. The adjustment is via a jumper setting. There are 4 settings. Call them low, medium, high, and no change.
Jim, you know we can come up with better ADV-level names than those tired old horses.

no change = I'm skert

Low = Nancyboy:ymca

Medium
= Was that a cop?

High = Whiskey Throttle
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