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Old 01-18-2011, 03:17 PM   #16
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorfiets View Post
cracks?!? shit... i gotta hole....


Holy shit!! Did you puncture it or did it just start spewing on it's own?! It'd be hard to believe it'd just do that on it's own. You had to have punctured it somehow! Tell us how!
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:05 PM   #17
Motorfiets
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Originally Posted by The Griz View Post
Holy shit!! Did you puncture it or did it just start spewing on it's own?! It'd be hard to believe it'd just do that on it's own. You had to have punctured it somehow! Tell us how!
touratech tank install!! damnit Griz I was hoping to fool a unsuspecting noob!
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Old 01-18-2011, 07:40 PM   #18
The Griz
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Originally Posted by Motorfiets View Post
touratech tank install!! damnit Griz I was hoping to fool a unsuspecting noob!
Ahh, I see! Sorry!
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Old 01-18-2011, 07:45 PM   #19
JRWooden
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Cracked tank poll...

Just a reminder:

If you have not voted in the "cracked tank" poll please do so here:

http://f800riders.org/forum/showthre...s-tank-cracked

From the votes so far it does appear to be a USA-canister-system related problem....
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:03 PM   #20
EnderTheX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post
Just a reminder:

If you have not voted in the "cracked tank" poll please do so here:

http://f800riders.org/forum/showthre...s-tank-cracked

From the votes so far it does appear to be a USA-canister-system related problem....
I smell something fishy...

First of all, while the data is interesting regarding the canister it is far from conclusive. Several pieces of evidence points to other causes, mainly:

1. As a mechanical engineer who has designed his fair share of injection molded and thermo-formed plastic parts the radius on the original tank is too small to withstand repeated loading, such as cycling pressure or fuel load. (which may point to the canister as a factor in the problem but not the root cause.)

2. BMW issued a change to the design by increasing the radius on the outer gas tank cover.

3. I haven't looked very hard but I haven't seen a confirmed crack on the new design tank, mostly rumors, second cracks are likely on the same part
as original.

4. Many F8s have been reported cracked with less than 10 miles on them at the dealership (I've seen one myself). This points to a fabrication/design flaw with little to do with repeated loading of the outer shell.




Granted, there is a problem, and everyone (especially you JR) shouldn't be a chicken and take their bike into the dealer and demand a replacement under warranty. You say in your other thread you don't want to take it in because it is a hassle?... WTF, that is like saying you don't want to talk to a guy for two minutes to automatically get 500 bucks just because you don't like his face. Man up and go get a tank, if they refuse, I'll give you my number and my dealers number and they can talk them into it.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post
From the votes so far it does appear to be a USA-canister-system related problem....
I don't know about that, man. Mine's cracked twice now. Once with the charcoal canister installed and once without it instaled. My opinion is that the charcoal canister has nothing to do with it. It's just shotty plastic molding: horribly formulated plastic and too thin.
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Old 01-18-2011, 11:13 PM   #22
Firefight911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderTheX View Post
I smell something fishy...

3. I haven't looked very hard but I haven't seen a confirmed crack on the new design tank, mostly rumors, second cracks are likely on the same part
as original.

4. Many F8s have been reported cracked with less than 10 miles on them at the dealership (I've seen one myself). This points to a fabrication/design flaw with little to do with repeated loading of the outer shell.
Hi, my name is fishy. Glad to meet you!

As to your point #3, my replacement tank is a confirmed, verified, obviously different, had to wait for the new one, had corporate involved redesigned tank and........wait for it........here it comes......not quite.......yep, you guessed it! Mine is cracked AGAIN.

Every F on the dealer floor near me has a cracked tank. Every one! (This is up until the 2011 models showed up. I have not seen any cracks on the newest ones.....YET.)

Just sayin'!
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:21 AM   #23
EnderTheX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bmwfan View Post
Hi, my name is fishy. Glad to meet you!

As to your point #3, my replacement tank is a confirmed, verified, obviously different, had to wait for the new one, had corporate involved redesigned tank and........wait for it........here it comes......not quite.......yep, you guessed it! Mine is cracked AGAIN.


Hmmmmmm....

OK, here is another factor this points to:

Faulty process parameters for fabrication!

When you think about how the crack looks this could be a huge factor. The crack looks bubbly and irregular also as if the material was "falling apart" instead of being pulled apart. There are also no stress marks around the crack that I noticed...

Weird and interesting
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz View Post
I don't know about that, man. Mine's cracked twice now. Once with the charcoal canister installed and once without it installed. My opinion is that the charcoal canister has nothing to do with it. It's just shotty plastic molding: horribly formulated plastic and too thin.
Griz:
Did you read the fine print in the poll
Have you removed your pressure check-valve? If so that would be an interesting piece of information!

I'm not asserting its the CANISTER it's self, but the canister "system".
The canister system has a checkvalve in it that allows the fuel tank to build ~5psi of positive pressure. The rest of the world's F800GS never build any significant pressure. I think this is a key factor. (I could be wrong...)

EnderTheX & Griz:

I am a mechanical/mfg engineer as well.
I do not dispute any of your assertions (well at least I don't think I do )

I do think the radius is too sharp, and that over time the non-USA bikes might crack as well. Some folks with the new Rev #2 tank (more gentle radius) have had tanks crack as well.

Materials selection, wall thickness, wall thickness transitions, location of mold injection ports/knit lines, and ... maybe process problems ???

Along the crack line of my tank there appear to be some small bubbles which might lead me to beleive injection temperatures were too high, perhaps there was too much moisture in material, or the cooling rates were non-uniform.

I'm not saying the ONLY factor is the pressure checkvalve in the canister system I'm just saying its an aggravating factor.

The reason I haven't had mine replaced is that it just doesn't piss me off that badly ... I think (hope) that BMW has called in some experts in plastic molding process by now and is working on Rev. #3 of the tank - so I intend to wait till near the end of my 3-yr warranty and get a new tank then ... hopefully it will be rev #3 if not than I'll have 2-yr extension on the warranty and by then have a rev #3 tank.

Maybe I'm just talking out my a$$...
It's happened before...
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:34 PM   #25
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Either way, good observations and work, JR. I'm glad you're in the trenches trying to get some answers on this one.
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Old 01-23-2011, 10:30 AM   #26
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Just back on the ADV board after not visiting since August. Boy I am glad I checked in. Sure enough went out to the garage today and found this crack
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Old 01-23-2011, 07:20 PM   #27
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Okay I have a 650 and a stupid question. If this issue was just the raidus (or angle? dont kill me Im 1337 not a ME) why do the new design tanks also exhibit cracking?

And mayhaps Ive missed this, but is this exlusive to the 800 or is it also seen on the 650? (if it isnt then WTF over).
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Old 01-23-2011, 07:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDuck View Post
Okay I have a 650 and a stupid question. If this issue was just the raidus (or angle? dont kill me Im 1337 not a ME) why do the new design tanks also exhibit cracking?

And mayhaps Ive missed this, but is this exlusive to the 800 or is it also seen on the 650? (if it isnt then WTF over).
Yeah... you pretty much missed most of this thread and the other threads covering this (and you might want to try spell check too).

Basically no one knows what is truly going on except the new design with the new radius is holding for most people and the first gen tanks are almost all cracking, you can check yours in 5 seconds.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:01 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by santafe carlos View Post
Just back on the ADV board after not visiting since August. Boy I am glad I checked in. Sure enough went out to the garage today and found this crack
Take it to your dealer ...
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by EnderTheX View Post
Yeah... you pretty much missed most of this thread and the other threads covering this (and you might want to try spell check too).

Basically no one knows what is truly going on except the new design with the new radius is holding for most people and the first gen tanks are almost all cracking, you can check yours in 5 seconds.
whats year is the new gen?
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