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Old 01-23-2011, 07:26 AM   #571
doyle
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Originally Posted by Pilbara View Post
It seems Despres had quite a capacity advantage (according to Michelin) in 2007 and 2010

Seriously bored out engine

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And therein lies the difference between "factory" and customer bikes.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:12 AM   #572
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Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
Been running Tubliss on my 950 SE for a year now and I find the opposite to be true, I can change them faster than a tube. I have eliminated the possibility of getting pinch flats and when I ran tubes, I would get them on the SE all the time while running hard in rocky terrain. I've also ran them on Rally stages with no problems at speeds up to 116 MPH and I'm still sitting here typing

I usually carry a spare Tubliss tube in my pack but I've never used it.
Try them sometime.
Hi Crankshaft - I'm not suggesting they are not a useful alternative to tubes, just saying they are not a [sensible] alternative to mousses, particularly when racing...

The only benefit I can see with using Tubliss is the ability to run other brands of [tubeless] tyres on tubed rims, and the ability to alter the air pressure - both of which have little baring on rally racing - the best tyres for rallying are all designed to run with mousses anyway, and the 15-18psi range of a mousse seems to be the optimum for heavish bikes, hitting stuff at racing speeds - even in sand? So I can't see how Tubliss would offer any benefit?

Ultimately you want to minimise (if not eradicate altogether) the chance of a flat, and an air-inflated tyre can still get holed... yes you can plug it, and reinflate with a gas cylinder, but that all takes time you won't want to lose in the middle of a stage?

With a mousse, it is very rare it would ever go flat (even if it starts to break down with heat, it never goes 'flat') - and if it does start to soften and lose grip on the bead, then the typical trick is to use heavy duty zip-ties to hold the tyre onto the rim for the rest of the stage... straight forward and less than a minute to implement.

I'm not saying Tubliss doesn't have a place, I'm just saying noone [to my knowledge] uses them in rally racing...

Jx

ps. That said, Tubliss might have a place in short course sand events or for extreme enduros in muddy conditions, where you might want to run a softer rear tyre?
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:16 AM   #573
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my mousse's are a bit soft for the 640 but they sure are sweet on the 525
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:26 AM   #574
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Originally Posted by doyle View Post
And therein lies the difference between "factory" and customer bikes.
Spot on. The "factory" 690's had 700cc (80 plus HP) versus the 653cc ( ca. 72HP )of the customer bikes. Both Pal Anders Ullevalseter and Thomas Berglund converted their 690's last year to 700cc to compensate for the restrictor rule.

I can however confirm that us mortals with customer bikes don't have to fret over lack of power. It still hauls ass and is a joy to ride in the dirt.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:28 AM   #575
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I believe there are different 'weights' of Rally mousse, depending on what weight of bike you are riding - like you suggest, a fully-fulled 75bhp 690RR is going to put a lot more strain on the tyres than a 50bhp CRF450 for example...

And I know there are are different rated front Desert mousses too - Patsy tends to specify the stronger/stiffer version for front wheels (to help minimise dented rims), and of course you'd want to run a Desert specific mousse in a Desert tyre, not a regular MX/enduro mousse (which will be softer, and smaller)...

Jx
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:34 AM   #576
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Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post
I believe there are different 'weights' of Rally mousse, depending on what weight of bike you are riding - like you suggest, a fully-fulled 75bhp 690RR is going to put a lot more strain on the tyres than a 50bhp CRF450 for example...

And I know there are are different rated front Desert mousses too - Patsy tends to specify the stronger/stiffer version for front wheels (to help minimise dented rims), and of course you'd want to run a Desert specific mousse in a Desert tyre, not a regular MX/enduro mousse (which will be softer, and smaller)...

Jx

true, I knew there were different flex mousse's, I had all my spares for the 525 and threw a set on the 640 for arse'ing around at home
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Old 01-23-2011, 10:02 AM   #577
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mmmmm mousse.
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Old 01-23-2011, 10:40 AM   #578
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Doyle.


I would be wary of tubliss in a rally for the simple reason if you ding your rim hard (Like I always seem to do), you will be screwed because you cant get a seal.

If it werent for that I think tubliss would be great.
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Old 01-23-2011, 11:05 AM   #579
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mmmmm mousse.
Mmmmmmmm chocolate... x
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:11 PM   #580
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Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
Been running Tubliss on my 950 SE for a year now and I find the opposite to be true, I can change them faster than a tube. I have eliminated the possibility of getting pinch flats and when I ran tubes, I would get them on the SE all the time while running hard in rocky terrain. I've also ran them on Rally stages with no problems at speeds up to 116 MPH and I'm still sitting here typing

I usually carry a spare Tubliss tube in my pack but I've never used it.
Try them sometime.
Just FYI for those interested in doing some kind of tubeless convert. http://cyb.smugmug.com/gallery/72508...65979444_cW2xa many people have had success.
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:23 PM   #581
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Originally Posted by Bluebull2007 View Post
Doyle.


I would be wary of tubliss in a rally for the simple reason if you ding your rim hard (Like I always seem to do), you will be screwed because you cant get a seal.

If it werent for that I think tubliss would be great.
It'll polish out...



Jx
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Old 01-23-2011, 04:41 PM   #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
Been running Tubliss on my 950 SE for a year now and I find the opposite to be true, I can change them faster than a tube. I have eliminated the possibility of getting pinch flats and when I ran tubes, I would get them on the SE all the time while running hard in rocky terrain. I've also ran them on Rally stages with no problems at speeds up to 116 MPH and I'm still sitting here typing
I usually carry a spare Tubliss tube in my pack but I've never used it.
Try them sometime.
I agree with Crankshaft. I love the Tubliss in my RXV550 (both ends) with Michelin Deserts. I can run them down to 5psi and never worry about pinch flats and they handle all the speed & power the RXV550 can dish out. I had the wheels balanced so they run smooth at paved road/highway speeds. I did not find them hard to change either, with simple hand tire tools.
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Old 01-23-2011, 04:48 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by beechum1 View Post
Just FYI for those interested in doing some kind of tubeless convert. http://cyb.smugmug.com/gallery/72508...65979444_cW2xa many people have had success.
This my gallery BTW. I have done this conversion on bikes that already can run "tubeless" tires so the rims I consider "tubeless compatible" and have spokes that basically never get loose (in non-racing applications). Never done my own method to dirtbike tires since I think they take too much of a beating and spokes get loose quicker. I run the Neutech Tubliss sustem in my Aprilia dirtbike. I've used my sealed rims method on my KTM990S and 2 Triumph Tigers 955i for over 110,000 combined miles of all kinds of terrain. I guess it sorta works. No failures yet.
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:44 PM   #584
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Originally Posted by Bluebull2007 View Post
Doyle.


I would be wary of tubliss in a rally for the simple reason if you ding your rim hard (Like I always seem to do), you will be screwed because you cant get a seal.

If it werent for that I think tubliss would be great.
I dented a rim on the MX track while running Tubliss and it held just fine. Even if the tire lost air, the inner tube would still hold the tire on the rim but the tire would be flat. Done it many times and worked fine. Not trying to argue the difference between mousse and Tublis, just offering my rel world experience. Should I run a Rally on my 690 and prove the point?

Fine, the Safari it is
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:32 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post
I found a good way of preserving the front tyre - and the perfect excuse for a gratuitous self-promotion shot:



Jx
What was your tire allotment and what were your change intervals?
Thanks
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