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Old 02-05-2011, 06:13 AM   #61
levain
STILL Jim Williams
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocitygear View Post

Kevlar and leather. Honestly, I love that excuse. It's one of the reasons I'm able to even TRY to build a product better than the Industry leaders.

BOTTOM line- your glove is only as strong as it's weakest link. So; you use a stronger thread (not NYLON-Dainese) and it tears the leather. So, then the argument is that a softer more forgiving thread is the answer, right?

Sorry! That's an excuse to cut costs and not address the next weakest link. If it's my hands, you can guarantee I'll walk the earth to find a solution, excuses are just that!

When I tested and destroyed my first 50 pairs with our bladder, the kevlar/leather argument became evident. Question is, why stop there? I wasn't about to...solutions are only as hard to find as the effort you put forth.

I know why the "Industry" doesn't build them like we do. It's the cost. When you manufacture thousands of anything, costs add up QUICKLY!
$.25 to $.50 might seem like chump change but multiply that x every pair of gloves that Daiese makes in a year. Those are gigantic numbers. Our gloves cost us significantly more than the "Industry's" typical glove.

We want to be known for products that "real" riders wear, not because of a logo but because of proven performance and reliability.

We want our products to do the talking, not a magazine ad..
Ok, so what are you doing different?

I'm not trolling. I mean, I'm buying a pair of gloves from you! Just trying to understand what you do different to allow you to use a stronger thread than the others. Is it that your leather is that much better/stronger? Are you reinforcing around seams somehow? What about the argument that more holes = less strength? ie: somewhere to blow vs. one continuous piece of material (cowhide, kangaroo etc.)?
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:41 AM   #62
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reinforced

No worries, good questions. Unfortunately, I'm not quite willing to spell out exactly how we build our gloves. Our "little secret", if you will...

More holes equals less strength if you're not addressing the next weakest link. Double stitching is better than single stitching, assuming that the stitching is spaced properly. Even then though, thread will tear through leather. There isn't one solution to pass these physical testing requirments, every problem must be addressed individually, then as a whole.

Realistically, after pursuing this for so long, I'm pretty confident I could build CE passing gloves using a few different techniques. Really, I think that glove construction and manufacturing is LAZY beyond asthetics. They all look great but that's where it ends. There are exceptions- Held for example.

Sorry, I wasn't very helpful with specific's. I've spent alot of time working on this project and I'm going to keep my lips sealed until RIDE magazine (or anyone else) does a testing review ;)
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:59 AM   #63
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Can you tell me the difference between the Prodigy glove and the Formula glove?
I don't see any difference in the descriptions.

How long before this offer expires?
If we order now, how long before we receive them?
Can I get either one in all black?

Cheers
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:01 AM   #64
Miles Tugeaux
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[QUOTE]www.highvelocitygear.com/sizing.htm USE the EU portion of the chart please.. [\QUOTE]

**I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but on my laptop monitor it is almost impossible to see the column labels. I had to do some mild acrobatics to see that the EU column is the one on the left.

Quote:
$149.00 is correct...
**I didn't catch this until after placing my order. My PayPal charge was $157 for a pair of Prodigy gloves. Should that have been $149? If so, can it be corrected?

Thanks.

MT
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:17 AM   #65
levain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocitygear View Post
No worries, good questions. Unfortunately, I'm not quite willing to spell out exactly how we build our gloves. Our "little secret", if you will...

More holes equals less strength if you're not addressing the next weakest link. Double stitching is better than single stitching, assuming that the stitching is spaced properly. Even then though, thread will tear through leather. There isn't one solution to pass these physical testing requirments, every problem must be addressed individually, then as a whole.

Realistically, after pursuing this for so long, I'm pretty confident I could build CE passing gloves using a few different techniques. Really, I think that glove construction and manufacturing is LAZY beyond asthetics. They all look great but that's where it ends. There are exceptions- Held for example.

Sorry, I wasn't very helpful with specific's. I've spent alot of time working on this project and I'm going to keep my lips sealed until RIDE magazine (or anyone else) does a testing review ;)
Fair enough!
Speaking of Held gloves, I'm a solid 9(L) in Held. Would that still put me in a Med. in yours?
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:23 AM   #66
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Considering Prodigy in addition to the Exhibition Pro's. Once they arrive though, I may decide I just want one of them. I just want to check them out to confirm that both would suit my needs.

Will this statement from your returns/exchanges page hold me to restocking of 15%? That's a deal breaker for me..

This being said, we attempt to resolve any issues or situations our customers may have with poducts. If an item is returned for no specific reason, a reason that is not due to the actual product itself, or if an exchange option is not exercised in regard to sizing issues, all refunds will incur original shipping and/or restocking charges up to 15% of the original purchase price.
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:31 AM   #67
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Come back

There was a post; where did it go? Don't tell me he removed it?

Well, I spent way too much time looking for RIDE magazine and that article. I have it on SD but there's some nonsense going on between my SD card and my PC. All good on the Laptop...whatever

Here's what I had so far:

Good stuff. I appreciate a little resistance.

Firstly, I'm not going to pretend I know everything about apparel safety. I learn as I go through the testing process. This was my first passage through the EU testing procedures. That "process" has taught me a few things about glove construction and unless you've been through the testing yourself, one can't really know what to expect. It's a process of learning and adaptation, at least at my level. I do not have a zillionth of the resources of a company like Dainese nor do I intend to. That, my friend is THE PROBLEM. A company like Dainese should step it up and I'll prove, at least to myself, why ;) with 2 examples:

1- the painful reality- GRAPHIC

DAINESE GLOVES & NYLON

http://www.ducatipilot.com/showthread.php?t=103

2- I can scan and post it if necessary, but #2 would be my first hand experience and testing FAILURE using nylon thread. I trusted a manufacturer (who I no longer deal with) to provide a CE passing glove. They even had a independent PPE "professional" go over the requirements with them prior to testing. I balked at the idea of using nylon thread but was "assured" by my manufacturer that there would be no problems passing the testing requirments. This manufacturer was so confident, he paid the expense to produce and ship the gloves to SATRA UK for testing and I paid for the testing.

What did he say when we received the testing results?

and I quote "I cannot accept those testing results. We built the best gloves we know how and I cannot accept those results".

and no, ^ that's not a joke...

Where did our gloves fail: SEAMS

Why? "thread broke" as per Peter D. of SATRA UK


Now I had a "contractual" agreement with this manufacturer. As contractual as you can get dealing with a 3rd world manufacturer anyway...
He was to retest on his coin if his gloves failed using his design. Of course, we never retested because he was completely unwilling to try and surely wasn't actually going to keep his word. To make this happen I ended up selling my motorcycle to simply fund the testing costs, so you can be assured that I was livid not only to find out that PPE guy was a *&#$off and knew less than nothing but my "ride" was forfeited for the cause...

With that being said, you may want to take a look at that RIDE magazine review of motorcycle gloves. Dainese finished 6th and 7th with their "nylon".

Joe Rocket finished first with Kevlar.....

BUT again, RIDEs 1-10 rating scale is bologna.... I want to see the actual numbers...

Lastly, before I started destroying gloves, I visited my local CycleGear and looked at their selection, construction methods and the like. I know what they're building these days, the question is; DO YOU?


GROUP BUYERS- WE GUARANTEE SATISFACTION- No restocking, noda! I'm not here to try to make 15% blowing smoke and refunding money. If these weren't the best gloves I've ever worn, I wouldn't say so.
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safety -> = ~SPEED.....

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www.highvelocitygear.com

velocitygear screwed with this post 02-05-2011 at 10:43 AM
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:41 AM   #68
velocitygear OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droptarotter View Post
Can you tell me the difference between the Prodigy glove and the Formula glove?
I don't see any difference in the descriptions.

How long before this offer expires?
If we order now, how long before we receive them?
Can I get either one in all black?

Cheers
They're fundamentally the same in terms of construction and materials. The Formula is your RACE glove WITH a pinky bridge.
The Prodigy is the street glove with "race" protection. Pinky bridge is optional...
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:43 AM   #69
Brtp4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocitygear View Post
There was a post; where did it go? Don't tell me he removed it?

Well, I spent way too much time looking for RIDE magazine and that article. I have it on SD but there's some nonsense going on between my SD card and my PC. All good on the Laptop...whatever

Here's what I had so far:

Good stuff. I appreciate a little resistance.

Firstly, I'm not going to pretend I know everything about apparel safety. I learn as I go through the testing process. This was my first passage through the EU testing procedures. That "process" has taught me a few things about glove construction and unless you've been through the testing yourself, one can't really know what to expect. It's a process of learning and adaptation, at least at my level. I do not have a zillionth of the resources of a company like Dainese nor do I intend to. That, my friend is THE PROBLEM. A company like Dainese should step it up and I'll prove, at least to myself, why ;) with 2 examples:

1- the painful reality- GRAPHIC

DAINESE GLOVES & NYLON

http://www.ducatipilot.com/showthread.php?t=103

2- I can scan and post it if necessary, but #2 would be my first hand experience and testing FAILURE using nylon thread. I trusted a manufacturer (who I no longer deal with) to provide a CE passing glove. They even had a independent PPE "professional" go over the requirements with them prior to testing. I balked at the idea of using nylon thread but was "assured" by my manufacturer that there would be no problems passing the testing requirments. This manufacturer was so confident, he paid the expense to produce and ship the gloves to SATRA UK for testing and I paid for the testing.

What did he say when we received the testing results?

and I quote "I cannot accept those testing results. We built the best gloves we know how and I cannot accept those results".

and no, ^ that's not a joke...

Where did our gloves fail: SEAMS

Why? "thread broke" as per Peter D. of SATRA UK


Now I had a "contractual" agreement with this manufacturer. As contractual as you can get dealing with a 3rd world manufacturer anyway...
He was to retest on his coin if his gloves failed using his design. Of course, we never retested because he was completely unwilling to try and surely wasn't actually going to keep his word. To make this happen I ended up selling my motorcycle to simply fund the testing costs, so you can be assured that I was livid not only to find out that PPE guy was a *&#$off and knew less than nothing.

With that being said, you may want to take a look at that RIDE magazine review of motorcycle gloves. Dainese finished 6th and 7th with their "nylon".

Joe Rocket finished first with Kevlar.....

BUT again, RIDEs 1-10 rating scale is bologna.... I want to see the actual numbers...

Lastly, before I started destroying gloves, I visited my local CycleGear and looked at their selection, construction methods and the like. I know what they're building these days, the question is; DO YOU?


GROUP BUYERS- WE GUARANTEE SATISFACTION- No restocking, noda! I'm not here to try to make 15% blowing smoke and refunding money. If these weren't the best gloves I've ever worn, I wouldn't say so.
First, communicating ideas are important to me. Being an internet PITA is not, that is why I deleted my post.

That picture is not from nylon. It is from the pinkie contacting the ground, the glove leather rotating, exposing the soft unreinforced fourchette to the asphalt. That happens often, I studied it when it happened to Ben Bostron (at Daytona) and Matt Waite (at Sers Point IIRC). It has happened to many others.

This situation is why Alpinestars has the finger bridge between the #s 3 and 4 fingers. That feature is patented. And by the way, I created that feature and patent.

In the most constructive way, I would advise against tying yourself to Kevlar thread in such an absolute way.

BP
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:52 AM   #70
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No PITA in my mind..

Hey, I appreciate your post and can take it. Resistance is good for the cause, please feel free to repost that info, I'd appreciate it.

No, that picture is not from nylon. It's from Nylon breaking and the glove unraveling. Just ask Van of Ducatipilot.com.

Kevlar is simply one more tool in our arsenal. You can be assured, there's a hell of a lot more than Kevlar doing the dirty work. It's a system, there is no magic thread or stitch.

So, you created the bridge? Excellent!

Who do you work for and are you willing to test your gloves against mine in ANY independent laboratory for everyone to see, ASAP???

If you're truly in that position, let's get Ride to do a side by side review? I'm sure you have that kind of pull..
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:59 AM   #71
Miles Tugeaux
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Customer service

FWIW, I posted above that I was charged $157 for the Prodigy gloves instead of $149. SEVEN minutes later I got a notice from PayPal that I had been issued an $8 refund. Pretty good response time!

MT
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Old 02-05-2011, 11:07 AM   #72
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Cool,cool

Ya know, I'm just an enthusiast. Ever since throwing my leg over a motorcycle, I've been hooked. All I've ever wanted was to be part of the "show". Initially, as a rider but life got in the way. So now, while I continue to push my riding ability as a personal goal, it's clear that I still want to be affiliated with motorcycling off the bike. Not a dealership employee or the like but in a position to challenge those that say it can't be done.

I've heard that more times than I can count, in regard to everything from riding to work to trying to compete with the big boys in "business". Although, it's not business for me, in fact that word makes me sick! fyi...
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Old 02-05-2011, 11:25 AM   #73
Miles Tugeaux
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Color preference

Velocitygear,

You asked about color preferences. I like two colors in gloves: "Natural tan" (or whatever it's called) and black. Black with a natural palm (or vice versa) works as well.

No red, blue, or any of that.

One guy's opinion.

MT
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:04 PM   #74
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colors

The Prodigy will be either all black or black with tan palms.

Keep the reflective dots? Lose them?



Here's what all Tan Kangaroo looks like on the Formula..

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Old 02-05-2011, 12:29 PM   #75
Miles Tugeaux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocitygear View Post
The Prodigy will be either all black or black with tan palms.

Keep the reflective dots? Lose them?

Here's what all Tan Kangaroo looks like on the Formula..
I'd say lose the dots. They're not a deal-breaker, but I think the glove would look cleaner without them. I can't see them being conspicuous enough to enhance safety. If you really want visible gloves, make them Hi-Viz lime yellow with a reflective stripe around the palm and/or wrist.

The all tan Formula looks good to me. Hmmm...may have to change my order...

MT

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