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Old 02-07-2011, 05:49 PM   #121
moist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
and, unfortunately, my R12GS is as close to a Goldwing as I intend to get. 1.5 litres or more is fine for a big tourer, but that's not what I bought a GS for. It's already a little too big and heavy for a dual sport tourer.
The trouble with the term dual sporter is like cruiser. are 650's really cruisers? is an 1800 HD really a cuiser? Really?

The term cruise means something which is as misleading as dual sport.

The pig GS's are good at more things than any other bike, however the GS doesn't hold a candle to true DS's or Cruisers, however it kicks at both venues.

I have ridden my 1150 a lot around the US and canada and feel like it is a real world tourer because it's weight has huge benefits which a light motorcycle would miss the boat because of.

Again the GS of today isn't a dirt bike, it barely is a dirt road bike, however and again, it does dirt roads well while losing little to nothing in being a great curvy road bike too.
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:50 PM   #122
tallguy-09
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Well, let me think. I'd rather keep the 2 cylinder Boxer... :-)


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You can buy a Goldwing today and maybe you figure out a way to get knobbies on ...
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:17 PM   #123
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The emperor has no clothes.

That Spanish magazine photo is so blurry I don't see one difference between that bike and the present model. Seriously, I've got this blown up on my 40 inch HDTV and all I see a 2005 r1200gs with boxes and bags. I can't even tell what side the swingarm is on, and if someone else could, it might still be explained by simply reversing the photo. I call shenanigans.
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:33 AM   #124
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I hope the speculation of 1300cc turns out to be wrong. BMW already has 110hp currently. They should be able to get about 125hp easily (good mid-range and not too stressed engine) with an updated 1200cc, water cooled boxer. Their 2nd priority should be reducing weight. 1300cc makes no sense.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:35 PM   #125
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Rocker arms were gone with the last of the hexheads in 09 and replaced by camheads, no?
Yes.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:17 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantan View Post
I hope the speculation of 1300cc turns out to be wrong. BMW already has 110hp currently. They should be able to get about 125hp easily (good mid-range and not too stressed engine) with an updated 1200cc, water cooled boxer. Their 2nd priority should be reducing weight. 1300cc makes no sense.
I wholeheartedly concur with this. I would much rather bmw worked at reducing weight by clever and refined design or else we end up with an "adventure" bike that shapes up to a goldwing.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:35 PM   #127
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This is what I have been feeling all along. The R Series GS is nothing more than a pavement pounder and dirt road rider and BMW is catering to this market quite well. You don't need 100+ hp to do a round the world trip and the R series is too big of a bike for serious RTW adventures.

If you want a serious RTW bike and want to stay with BMW then it is the F800 GS - 21" front wheel, lighter weight, better fuel consumption and much cheaper price.

If I was to do my RTW trip tomorrow and it had to be on a bike produced in the last three years or two upcoming years, it would be the F800 all the way.
Except for the lack of fuel capacity.
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:35 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasenwerk View Post
This is what I have been feeling all along. The R Series GS is nothing more than a pavement pounder and dirt road rider and BMW is catering to this market quite well. You don't need 100+ hp to do a round the world trip and the R series is too big of a bike for serious RTW adventures.

If you want a serious RTW bike and want to stay with BMW then it is the F800 GS - 21" front wheel, lighter weight, better fuel consumption and much cheaper price.

If I was to do my RTW trip tomorrow and it had to be on a bike produced in the last three years or two upcoming years, it would be the F800 all the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Sean View Post
Except for the lack of fuel capacity.
I guess I am prejudiced in believing in the GS series. But for sure the GS is not the best motorbike in the world, it is not the best at any specific task. In other words, touring, dirt roads, pavement, cruising, dual sport,, name one. There are many bikes which are better at any "one" venue than any BMW GS.
However I have come to believe the GS line is a good design because it does all of those venues "well",,,again, not the best, but well.
My GS has a 9.8 gallon fuel tank, gets 36 MPG consistently (if ridden conservatively). Can haul a load like a pack mule and still carve a twisty road well. Loaded for a 2 month trip I rode Deals Gap many times with an BMW RT companion and never felt out classed.
The Last point about the weight increasing each model year and being larger and larger couldn't be further from the truth. The 1200GS is 50 pounds lighter than my 1150GS and the same engined HP2 (1150cc and 1200cc) are 50% the weight of my 1150. The BMW engine is not become heavier, rather the engines are becoming more powerful.
Oh there is no lack of bikes which are specifically designed for the venue you would like to ride. But an all around (SUV motorbike) like the BMW GS is still rare and still an exceptional bike.
The rest of road worthy SUV bikes out there are still striving to join the GS in ability, but in my opinion they still haven't made it.
I want a few of them myself, so I don't dislike the competition, rather I would like to see other brands join in the GS arena.
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:55 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moist View Post
I guess I am prejudiced in believing in the GS series. But for sure the GS is not the best motorbike in the world, it is not the best at any specific task. In other words, touring, dirt roads, pavement, cruising, dual sport,, name one. There are many bikes which are better at any "one" venue than any BMW GS.
However I have come to believe the GS line is a good design because it does all of those venues "well",,,again, not the best, but well.
My GS has a 9.8 gallon fuel tank, gets 36 MPG consistently (if ridden conservatively). Can haul a load like a pack mule and still carve a twisty road well. Loaded for a 2 month trip I rode Deals Gap many times with an BMW RT companion and never felt out classed.
The Last point about the weight increasing each model year and being larger and larger couldn't be further from the truth. The 1200GS is 50 pounds lighter than my 1150GS and the same engined HP2 (1150cc and 1200cc) are 50% the weight of my 1150. The BMW engine is not become heavier, rather the engines are becoming more powerful.
Oh there is no lack of bikes which are specifically designed for the venue you would like to ride. But an all around (SUV motorbike) like the BMW GS is still rare and still an exceptional bike.
The rest of road worthy SUV bikes out there are still striving to join the GS in ability, but in my opinion they still haven't made it.
I want a few of them myself, so I don't dislike the competition, rather I would like to see other brands join in the GS arena.
Couldna said it betta

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Old 02-10-2011, 08:36 AM   #130
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oil-head, hex-head, wet-head?? Wet-boxer??

I remember reading about this Wet-boxer almost two years ago, as an idea moving forward due in large part with Emissions regulations. It was speculated they needed to go this route to improve both MPG's and in turn cut emissions across the RPM range. As other chewed and spit out the idea, labeling it too heavy with added reliability issues, it makes you wonder how far it has come in it's testing?!

I'm sure like all other BMW products it will be awesome looking, sounding, and handling in the showroom with impressive marketing PR....... HOWEVER, the truth is told by the service department. If maintenance cost and reliability are in check with longer times between service intervals then they have my

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt simply because it could be GREAT! I'm just fearful on what kinda gizmos they try out then drop a couple years down the road. It seems to me, BMW Motorad unlike it's car division seems to experiment more with niches, adding a model or gizmo then getting rid of it just a few years later....450X, 650X, brake servos, canbus (which I hear is by-by in this model, that's a good thing).

I'm looking forward to see what they come up with! :freak
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:39 AM   #131
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With all the capitol being poured into the next generation Boxer, I hope they can spare a few bucks and produce a fuel gauge that doesn't trip warning bells and a gauge bezel that doesn't melt in the sun.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:24 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantan View Post
I hope the speculation of 1300cc turns out to be wrong. BMW already has 110hp currently. They should be able to get about 125hp easily (good mid-range and not too stressed engine) with an updated 1200cc, water cooled boxer. Their 2nd priority should be reducing weight. 1300cc makes no sense.
I agree. 1200cc water cooled boxer should be able to easily produce 125 hp and still be under stressed.

As much as I want the weight reduced on the new GS, there is little incentive. With Yamaha's Super Ton weighting in at about 60 lbs more that the existing GS, I doubt BMW will spend many dollars to reduce the weight further and instead just offer more horsepower. With so few GS being taken off pavement, horsepower will sell more bikes than taking off another 20 lbs will.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:37 PM   #133
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I agree. 1200cc water cooled boxer should be able to easily produce 125 hp and still be under stressed.

As much as I want the weight reduced on the new GS, there is little incentive. With Yamaha's Super Ton weighting in at about 60 lbs more that the existing GS, I doubt BMW will spend many dollars to reduce the weight further and instead just offer more horsepower. With so few GS being taken off pavement, horsepower will sell more bikes than taking off another 20 lbs will.
I agree (although the S10 competes the similarly heavy GSA).
BMW does need to do one thing only and will have a weight balance winner. Swap the places of the airbox and the fuel tank.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:23 PM   #134
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No second/third fiddle

I don't think BMW has any intention of playing second or third fiddle in the big dual sport market for another year. If not a "water boxer" one would think they would at least feel the need to technologically update to the level of the engine management and fuel systems on the Tenere and the Multistrada. And while they're at it, why not be competitive in the hp realm as well by updating the engine. I can't think they will be willing to ride shotgun for the next three years but what the hey? I'm usually wrong anyway.

I've been waiting for this update since 05 so maybe if I predict it as a no go it may happen.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:50 PM   #135
moist
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Originally Posted by mousitsas View Post
I agree (although the S10 competes the similarly heavy GSA).
BMW does need to do one thing only and will have a weight balance winner. Swap the places of the airbox and the fuel tank.

On first squint your thought makes perfect sense. I know for sure the fuel tank CG makes this thing a freeking pig at slow speeds.

My GS Adventure (NOT GSA) is packing an almost 10 gallon fuel tank. The center fuel cell technology might be feasible, however it could be a troublesome leaker and with the lack of a real frame, space is also amazingly limited. Of course you know the battery is already under the fuel tank.

It loses it's luster when you see the cost versus the existing industry leading tank.
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