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Old 02-15-2011, 08:20 AM   #76
RAL88
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This thread has been a great help. I just picked up a '95' R1100GS with 15,000 miles on it. Having heard about the transmission I also found a '99' M97 with 13,000 miles on it.

I do all my own work on my bikes and rebuilt the transmission on my '96' R1100RT.

Since the bike has been garaged sinced '98' I will be going through it with a fine tooth comb and this will include a spline lube. Would the recommendation be to change out the old M94 with the M97, Run the M94 until it has a problem and then put in the M97 or swap out the weak input shaft of the M97 with the input shaft of the M94 and then put in the M97.

Any insight would be most helpful.

Thanks,
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:29 AM   #77
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:09 PM   #78
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multisurface Rider View Post
This is along the lines of what I have been told and read.
Thanks for your input, what brand of oil do you use?
Sorry for the delay in replying....

Any name brand GL-5. The moly will help reduce the wear on the forks.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:06 PM   #79
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I put Moly powder in my tranny and final drive. I found a temp drop of about 20 degrees and the shifting is easier. I just picked up Tungsten disulfide which will go in on the next oil change.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:46 PM   #80
Ridin'nFishin OP
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I do all my own work also, saves money that way. I started to tear the M97 apart and do the input shaft change like you mentioned. I talked to Bruno and he told me to put the N97 in and run it. I may keep the M94 tranny for a later rebuild, but then I may sell it or part it out. I did put new seals in the M94 on the first go round.

It is up to you and what you fell like doing and the time frame you have to do the swap. If you have the time, change it out. Changing the input shaft, that is up to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAL88 View Post
This thread has been a great help. I just picked up a '95' R1100GS with 15,000 miles on it. Having heard about the transmission I also found a '99' M97 with 13,000 miles on it.

I do all my own work on my bikes and rebuilt the transmission on my '96' R1100RT.

Since the bike has been garaged sinced '98' I will be going through it with a fine tooth comb and this will include a spline lube. Would the recommendation be to change out the old M94 with the M97, Run the M94 until it has a problem and then put in the M97 or swap out the weak input shaft of the M97 with the input shaft of the M94 and then put in the M97.

Any insight would be most helpful.

Thanks,
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:13 PM   #81
def
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Why are you switching from moly to tungsten?
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:30 PM   #82
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Tungsten has a lower coeficient of friction than moly. It withstands greater pressure and higher temperatures. It is also smaller in particle size than moly. So small that it can go through the oil filter so I will also be using it in the Mobile 1 that I use for the engine (There are a lot of people using it in their auto and motorcycle engines). The tungsten is so slippery that it will not even stick to itself so it will lay down a layer on the metal parts that is about 0.6 microns thick. One micron is 1/1000 of a milimeter.

Previously Tungsten (WS2) was quite a bit more expensive than Moly (MoS2) but the price has come down to almost what Moly is.

I also make my own spline lube with Wurth Sig 3000 grease and moly powder but for next time it will be with WS2.
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RAL88 screwed with this post 02-16-2011 at 03:29 AM
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:21 AM   #83
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAL88 View Post
So small that it can go through the oil filter so I will also be using it in the Mobile 1 that I use for the engine (There are a lot of people using it in their auto and motorcycle engines). The tungsten is so slippery that it will not even stick to itself so it will lay down a layer on the metal parts that is about 0.6 microns thick. One micron is 1/1000 of a milimeter.
Most name-brand motor oils including Mobil 1 already contain adequate moly as an EP additive. I would not ad more.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:25 AM   #84
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From everything I have read Mobile 1 only puts in enough moly to be able to list it on their label and that is not that much. 100-200ppm
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:20 AM   #85
def
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Originally Posted by RAL88 View Post
From everything I have read Mobile 1 only puts in enough moly to be able to list it on their label and that is not that much. 100-200ppm
How much is enough?

I'm not a lubrication engineer or tribologist but it doesn't take much moly to provide engine protection.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:17 PM   #86
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I to am not a tribologist an only go buy what I garner from people with more experience and smarter than I am. The way it was explained to me is you want enough to last through to the next oil change. When the moly adheres to the surface of the metal and you get the friction of metal to metal the moly does wear away and a new particle moves in to take its place. This is on a very small scale and you are correct that it does not take that much but you want enough get through to the next oil change. From talking to some mechanic friends who have use it they tell me that the 100-200 ppm that you find in Mobile 1 does help but is not enough to make it from one oil change to another especially in a motorcycle where your engine rpms are twice that what you find in a car.

Also as I think we all know the synthetic oils ability to lubricate will go a lot further than dino oil. The problem starts when all the other additives for viscosity, detergent, antifoaming etc. get used up way before the oil really breaks down. I used to use Mobile 1 extended which adds extra additives so it can go longer but I can't find it anymore.
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Old 03-02-2011, 06:50 AM   #87
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I need some help!

Huge long story! Short version is this. I need some tranny help. New to me 97 R1100RT with M97 tranny, with 85K on the clock. With very sketchy maint. records.

Pulled drive train down for spline lube. Drained tranny and found crumbs I did not like. Tore down, bad input brgs. Clean up and install new brgs. Reassemble.

My problem is that the cutout notch on the shift drum will not mesh with the shift notch on the shifter pawl on the shift shaft? The drum when fully seated in the trans. case now sets below the the shift shaft shift pawls. Meaning that there is no contact between the shift drum and the shift shaft to allow the tranny to be shifted from one gear to the next.

I do not have any spare parts left over. All three shafts are correctly seated in the case. The shift drum has to be fully seated in the bottom or back of the case with a snap ring. Meaning if does not " FLOAT" in the transmission. The shift shaft has to also seat in the back of the case in order for the external linkage to be attached.

I am completely stumped? No parts have been added or removed in these two areas.

I am open for suggestions.
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Old 03-02-2011, 07:53 AM   #88
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I am sure you are puzzled, as I am. These trannys are pretty simply looking when opened up, after looking and studing what does what and when it does it and what gear you are in. I have never been into any transmission of any kind in my life until I opened up mine the first time. I have now been into it 2 times. This is what I did on the second time around trying to figure out what my problem was, and I still had to be told (by Bruno) that the gears needed to be undercut. That is the problem with the M94 trannys.

When I had my tranny apart the second time and wanted to see exactly what does what. While the case is open and you try to shift the gears everything moves around. I made a little jig out of 2" channel iron, spacers and long bolts. Drilled holes in the channel and placed it over the shafts with spacer to keep everything in place then with the drive shaft attached so I could rotate the shaft I could shift thru all the gears and watch what was going on.

I suggest you do something like that with the case open and when you get it shifting thru all the gears put it back together. Before you put it back in the bike, shift againg thru all the gears over and over to make sure it is working correctly.

It doessound like you do not have something seated all the way in the tranny, might be the drum(watch for the little pins that they do not slip out and keep the drum from seating all the way down) or the shifting shaft is not seated all the way down or the drum is not in the right position. It only works one way, take your time and understand the tranny, don't force anything.

I hope this helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by facetjoint View Post
Huge long story! Short version is this. I need some tranny help. New to me 97 R1100RT with M97 tranny, with 85K on the clock. With very sketchy maint. records.

Pulled drive train down for spline lube. Drained tranny and found crumbs I did not like. Tore down, bad input brgs. Clean up and install new brgs. Reassemble.

My problem is that the cutout notch on the shift drum will not mesh with the shift notch on the shifter pawl on the shift shaft? The drum when fully seated in the trans. case now sets below the the shift shaft shift pawls. Meaning that there is no contact between the shift drum and the shift shaft to allow the tranny to be shifted from one gear to the next.

I do not have any spare parts left over. All three shafts are correctly seated in the case. The shift drum has to be fully seated in the bottom or back of the case with a snap ring. Meaning if does not " FLOAT" in the transmission. The shift shaft has to also seat in the back of the case in order for the external linkage to be attached.

I am completely stumped? No parts have been added or removed in these two areas.

I am open for suggestions.
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Old 03-02-2011, 03:48 PM   #89
facetjoint
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Calvin, yes you are correct in saying that something does not seem to be seated correctly. I've had the shift shaft and the shift drum out and back in probably 25 times and there is just no explanation to the dilemma? What is worse is that I have back surgery scheduled for 9 am tomorrow morning and I wanted this thing back together and back on the ground by now.

I guess it will have to wait till I am healed up. When the hell ever that will be.

Thanks Bill
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Old 03-02-2011, 04:01 PM   #90
Ridin'nFishin OP
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Good luck with your back surgery. I had back surgery in the 90's, L4 & L5.

You will probably find something simple is kicking your butt on the tranny, I hate it when that happens.



Quote:
Originally Posted by facetjoint View Post
Calvin, yes you are correct in saying that something does not seem to be seated correctly. I've had the shift shaft and the shift drum out and back in probably 25 times and there is just no explanation to the dilemma? What is worse is that I have back surgery scheduled for 9 am tomorrow morning and I wanted this thing back together and back on the ground by now.

I guess it will have to wait till I am healed up. When the hell ever that will be.

Thanks Bill
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