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Old 02-13-2011, 02:43 AM   #16
gefr
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Optical looks ideal but has some unresolved issues.

I do not understand how the device with the infrared sensor moving is going to be fitted on the fp.
I thought of purging the moving contact device alltogether and using only the vibrating rod.
However the moving point is attached to a device that builds in a time lug. This is needed to give time to the solenoid to pull the membrane of the fp to fill with fuel .

men8ifr I watched your video and noticed sparks coming from the contact of the capacitor to the bridge when you do not press it with your finger. That could give you misleading results when you do not press it, as increasing sparks???

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Old 02-13-2011, 07:08 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by gefr View Post
men8ifr I watched your video and noticed sparks coming from the contact of the capacitor to the bridge when you do not press it with your finger. That could give you misleading results when you do not press it, as increasing sparks???
With the small amount of current getting discharged at the upper spark, I'd think it would actually decrease the spark at the points. Bend it out of the way and the points spark would be that much larger.
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Old 02-13-2011, 07:59 AM   #18
ridewestKTM
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Optical

I didn't look at the details just the fact that it used the optical trigger. Gefr makes two good points. There should be no sparking if done right. The optical switch should open a gate on a transistor with just a few milliamps just like my timer or the FET and points so no sparks. The other point is the lag. Without a "dead band" it could switch so fast that it wouldn't stroke. The "toggle" in the points do this for the stock set-up and gefr's set up used the points not the shaft. But because the draw-back is a near fixed duration (because regardles of fuel flow rate, draw into the pump is unchanging stroke to stroke) - a time "on" could be established even after breaking the light beam to ensure full stroke. So IMO this still CAN be a very good system. I haven't taken apart a facet or whatever, but it seems more like they are continous pulsating "on" like my timed circuit. IMO these pumps are less desireable not due to method but because -for some reason they do not match the same parameters that the mitzu does (by accident or design).
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:36 AM   #19
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manual

http://forum.lc8.nl/download.php?id=2225

Here is the manual in dutch, can that be translated by google?

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Old 02-13-2011, 12:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATAK View Post
http://forum.lc8.nl/download.php?id=2225

Here is the manual in dutch, can that be translated by google?

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Yes I knew of that document. No way to translate pdf in place that I know of. You can only cut the text out and translate separately.

This is the result. Translation isn't great (especially the technical/bike specific terms). I expect if you've already replaced your points or installed FET/etc you could make enough sense of it. If you've never taken the pump apart at all, I imagine a better translation would be very helpful. Someone Dutch, who speaks good English and has familiarity with the pump could probably clean this up quickly based on Google translation starting point and the Dutch pdf.

------

Installation instructions DR_Bean petrol pump modification
Print
To print you need to assemble:
- This guide!
- Soldering iron (fair bit, so no soldering gun thick)
- Piece of tin with flux (electronics solder)
- Cutting pliers
- Phillips
- Allen 2.5
- 7 key (preferably screw-cap)
- Drop of loctite
- At least one right hand and at least 1 hour time if you have the pump loose it.
Read the whole story, and then follow the instructions step-by-step: this is really the easiest order! If you do not understand something, parts or tools have not, do NOT get to work but consult the LC8 forum, and get everything ready before you begin.
1. Remove the pump: See LC8 workshop manual (forum). Bridging the service outputs with a short tubing, or make sure the pump is quite low, otherwise the gasoline are likely to damage the assemble or otherwise dangerous. For clarity, the rubber mount to the pump here removed, but this is not strictly necessary.
2. Loosen Lid:
- Screw the black cap of the pump with a crosshead.
- Slide the cap over the wire (with outer cover) to the outlet so you have room to work.
- Cut the blue outer sheath to the cable about 4 inches in:
This gives your workspace; damage the wires.
- Place the Gasket also as far as possible toward plug (this will be easier if you grease the threads here is to what WD40).
3. Remove the entire gearshift (with worn spots) go the two Phillips-head screws. Also remove the paper below.
4. Remove the soldering iron with the black wire that comes from the pump regardless of the switch contact (red arrow). The switching mechanism can be stored as a reserve.
5. Cut (!) Now with a sharp cutter the blue-black wire by, 6-10 mm outside the black insulating sleeve (+ / - 25 mm from pump): see yellow arrow and circle.
Now we build:
6. Fitting the spacers for print:
- NOTE: The spacers are required in the two holes in line with the axis, where the original screws were (the third hole for the screw the cap).
- Under one bus is a spring washer and ground cable.
- Connect the ground cable on the side of the third screw hole.
- Among the other is a spring washer and a regular ring, see photo!
- Put some Loctite on the threads of the spacers, and tighten HAND-fixed (5 Nm) with such a dopschroevendraaier-7. ATTENTION, The pump is just look, so do not turn too hard!
7. Insert the blue-black wire (the cable with plug) in print:
Turn the end of the wire neatly (no fraying) and insert hole where BAT stands. Insert the wire until the insulation in the hole!
8. Solder the wire from the other side with some electronics solder.
9. Mounting the board on the spacers
- The large semicircular recess in the PCB is the side of the bolt hole for the cap: This is soon the black screw cap (see here how the cap comes out!).
- Insert the short blue-black wire from the pump in the PCB hole (S +) next to the blue-black wire of the other hand, you've just soldered. (Red arrow-1)
- Put the thinner black wire from the pump in the printgat smaller (S-) on the other side of the screw (red Arrow-2)
- Turn the board using the two allen screws: Imbus 2.5. Under each screw a snap ring (see photo)
- Quiet Solder the 2 wires from the pump onto the print. Let the solder flow through!
Test: All connections are now on the board. Now you can just connect the pump (ignition off!) To the original plug on the engine. Make sure the pump and no conclusion can make prints!
Switch on the ignition of the engine and the pump would be 5 seconds to make a quick popping sound: does not, then you have done something wrong! NOTE: If you have done something wrong, may be now fuse for the fuel pump in the zekeringbox inflated. Remove the pump, replace if necessary. the fuse and begin this step by step guide to walk again.
Installation:
10. Cap assembly:
- The cap is now back on board and the wires: That fits all a bit tight, so do not use force, it can neatly fit as well fitted (possibly make. the threads and O-ring is very slightly greasy with WD40, so not too rough running during installation).
- Push the cap back on wires up to the rubber. Press From inside (with a blunt screwdriver or similar) the rubber in the slot (Well ... not my tie Design: effe fiddling!). If the rubber is not good at session is, adjust the PCB is not soon! You can rubber on the outside look good when sitting on his location is: see picture
- Now stop the pump with print in the cap, and pull the wire slowly. The semi-circular notch in the PCB to get where the screw cap gets stuck, see photo!
- The ground wire, along the board, this is sufficient space, but beware that you do not pinch.
- Put the O-ring into the rim of the cap
- Press the cap completely and quietly on the pump. It should clearly fall into place, and the screw you the third hole in the pump to see. (Possibly cap slightly clockwise)
- Screw the long screw the cap back in, hand!
READY! Test the pump a little to the motor, as previously described and mount the pump in the engine.
Finally: You can use sealant: In my opinion this is not necessary if the O-ring and Gasket well in their seats. But in any case DO NOT use silicone acid (smells like vinegar)! This affects electronics fast.

crazybrit screwed with this post 02-13-2011 at 12:20 PM
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:34 PM   #21
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So I ordered one of these from the guy from lc8.nl. Also he e-mailed me an english version of the install PDF which is pretty good. Not cheap thanks to the exchange rate, $63 w/ shipping. We shall see. Maybe it'll be fuel pump Nirvana
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:44 PM   #22
gefr
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Seems a neat job!

I guess the lag can be inserted with some electronic trick, so looks like a neat job. Cheers.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:47 AM   #23
kirb
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Originally Posted by men8ifr View Post
2nd - fitting a diode across the contacts
Not sure why the diode doesn't work. On DC systems, diodes are used all the time across coils to reduce the 'flyback' voltage of a discharging coil. This saves relay contacts and electronic components during breaking cycles.

This diode should be placed across the coil, not contacts (not sure it matters too much here). The banded side of the diode should face battery positive side and the non-banded diode should face the negative side. I would use 1000V, 10A diodes minimum.
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:00 AM   #24
Scott Baja
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Hey ridewestKTM

Would you be so kind as to direct me to, or explain the limp home/home repair of the pump?
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:08 AM   #25
men8ifr OP
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Originally Posted by gefr View Post

men8ifr I watched your video and noticed sparks coming from the contact of the capacitor to the bridge when you do not press it with your finger. That could give you misleading results when you do not press it, as increasing sparks???
Yes I reasised the capacitor has a bit of a rough connection later in the video - I don't think it does at the start? Eitherway watching it when not filming (easier) the sparking is largest when the capacitor is fully disconnacted, if there are little sparks (as in at least some) of the video the sparking across the contacts is reduced a bit so actually works a little bit better than later in the video.

RE the diode - I tried it both ways but did nothing - some-one mentioned there is already a diode present. It seems clear with the car points a capacitor is needed otherwise the life is very short, the pump seems the same.

I fitted the capacitor to the pump and also tested it, there is a lot less sparking with a new pump compared to the old worn contacts and again the capacitor appeared to reduce the visible spark intensity by about 5x - so I'm hoping the bike will be good for minimum 10,000 miles (standard pump) x 5 = 50,000 miles or 44,000miles x 5 = 220,000 miles (44k is the mileage of my bike with original pump). We'll see!
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:23 PM   #26
ridewestKTM
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limp home modes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Baja View Post
Hey ridewestKTM

Would you be so kind as to direct me to, or explain the limp home/home repair of the pump?
There were several ways discussed. Some were electronic mods to stock or electrical mods, others were not using the pump. I think it was gonow that used is turn blinker to pulse the pump. In that case it was directly grounding the point coil wire with the brown black grounded and hooking the black/blue to a blinker. Very creative! My bonehead way (I tested) was connect a hand tire pump to the vent (both tied together) and pump pressure into the tank. How far you go between pumps depnds on how tight the vent seals in the caps are and how full the tank is - more empty will go futher. I set it up to pump while riding -might look funny if you have the pump in the wrong spot tho. Someone else noted that if you bypass the pump and have a full tank you'll go 40mi then if you lay it over and transfer to left tank and close right valve you can go further. I noted also using these schemes and plug the vent, the Adventures get the tank hot enough that you might get all the way out on vapor pressure.
Not sure I covered the question - I just plan to use the tire pump w/wo bypassing the fuel pump.
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:30 PM   #27
ridewestKTM
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The diode supression in stock pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirb View Post
Not sure why the diode doesn't work. On DC systems, diodes are used all the time across coils to reduce the 'flyback' voltage of a discharging coil. This saves relay contacts and electronic components during breaking cycles.

This diode should be placed across the coil, not contacts (not sure it matters too much here). The banded side of the diode should face battery positive side and the non-banded diode should face the negative side. I would use 1000V, 10A diodes minimum.
Agree the diode is across the coil with band towards the Black/blue (pos) wire. One would think it was enough but for some reason it isn't.
As said before I have replaced this diode by cutting the steel shell in just the right place then put a new diode on the outside of the steel.
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:29 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ridewestKTM View Post
I set it up to pump while riding -might look funny if you have the pump in the wrong spot tho.
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Old 04-08-2011, 03:48 PM   #29
Trailie
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Has anyone tried a low pressure American fuel pump available at the autoparts store for about $40?
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Old 04-08-2011, 03:55 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Trailie View Post
Has anyone tried a low pressure American fuel pump available at the autoparts store for about $40?
What one do you have in mind?
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DISCLAIMER: All observations made in this post are mine and based solely on my own anecdotal experiences, and may contain large doses of facetiousness. YMMV, of course. You are "on your own", and I take no responsibility if someone tries anything in this post and gets into trouble with the law, damages their person or property, or goes blind. Take everything you read or hear "anywhere" butt especially on the Web with a large dose of salt.

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