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Old 05-23-2011, 01:41 PM   #76
Fronnzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fronnzy View Post
...I know it's cool to have ABS on a bike, and it probably even helps in some situations, but the jury is still out for me...
It is silly to quote myself, but what a difference a few days makes. It's been raining a lot here, and one of our main streets, Yellowhead, is a trucking route that is notorious for oily, messy surfaces in wet weather. I was making a lane change to pass at speed, when someone changed there mind on an exit and jumped back into traffic right in front of me. Had it not been for ABS I would have hit the bumper for sure.

Fine. It's good.

But I still don't like it on all the time.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:30 PM   #77
Desert Dave
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Originally Posted by ChiTown View Post

I know how many times BMW ABS has saved my life,

I've just got to ask, how long did you ride bikes without ABS and how did you live?

I've owned twenty something bikes without it and haven't once needed it to save my life or even prevent a crash, and there have been plenty of full on stops at well over 50 mph where i had to trust myself.

I respect everything in your post except that one line, I really think you aren't giving yourself enough credit. Seriously.
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:12 PM   #78
JoelWisman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Dave View Post
I've just got to ask, how long did you ride bikes without ABS and how did you live?

I've owned twenty something bikes without it and haven't once needed it to save my life or even prevent a crash, and there have been plenty of full on stops at well over 50 mph where i had to trust myself.

I respect everything in your post except that one line, I really think you aren't giving yourself enough credit. Seriously.
I can answer this question for myself. I rode for 16 years without abs. Being that I mostly rode sport bikes and had highly developed braking skills (I've won perhaps 50 bets that I could outstop others, never lost) I can only recall 5 times I over braked and crashed. (no crashes were into fixed objects, but deliberately or unintentionally putting a bike on it's side counts as a crash for me)

That said, the past 5 years have had a number of situations that where somewhere between annoyance and terror which I feel could have turned into a significant crash.

Why the desparity? Well, cars are making more bonehead maneuver, especially since smart phones became necessary for youthful existence, but truthfully, there is a bigger reason, i am riding faster, especially in questionable traction conditions.

In other words, I am taking advantage of the increased margin of safety abs provides by filling some of it with increased speed.

So does abs increase safety or simply increase speed?

I believe it increases safety, and so does every motorcycle insurance company who has studied it.

Am I depending on technology and allowing manly braking skills to rust?

Yes and no. I ceartnly do not practice unlocking wheels as often as I used to, but have also gained knoweledge on just how much traction is available under conditions I never did in the 16 years before it.

In any case it's going to become a moot discussion. Abs will be mandated on cars and motorcycles. Vehicle inspections will confirm it is not bypassed. The years of choice, sadly, are numbered and small.
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JoelWisman screwed with this post 05-23-2011 at 06:17 PM
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:32 PM   #79
Desert Dave
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Joel, that's a fine post and makes your point well.

Maybe a big difference between that and myself is that honestly I'm slowing down and taking less chances these days. After spending years on the racetrack (road race and dirt) I've pushed my limits enough and have no intentions of riding like that on the street (or dirt ). If I did I'd go back to the track. I can't remember the last time I've ridden without what I felt was a large margin for error. I do still ride spirited and so far my impression of the ABS on my F800 is that I spend far more time riding around what it's doing than reaping any benefit. If it's raining on the freeway, I'll leave it on, but I don't count on it one bit. As technology advances I'm sure a system will come out (maybe already has) that doesn't make me feel that way and I'll be fine with it, until then I like having the choice.

That's it, that simple.
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:14 PM   #80
JoelWisman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Dave View Post
Joel, that's a fine post and makes your point well.

Maybe a big difference between that and myself is that honestly I'm slowing down and taking less chances these days. After spending years on the racetrack (road race and dirt) I've pushed my limits enough and have no intentions of riding like that on the street (or dirt ). If I did I'd go back to the track. I can't remember the last time I've ridden without what I felt was a large margin for error. I do still ride spirited and so far my impression of the ABS on my F800 is that I spend far more time riding around what it's doing than reaping any benefit. If it's raining on the freeway, I'll leave it on, but I don't count on it one bit. As technology advances I'm sure a system will come out (maybe already has) that doesn't make me feel that way and I'll be fine with it, until then I like having the choice.

That's it, that simple.
I hear you Dave, and your methods are sound. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure........

Abs is a sometimes cure for a lack of prevention of situations where heavy braking or maneuvering while braking are required.

The variant of abs on the F800GS is Bosch ABS 8M. Pretty much the same as many cars sans 2 hydraulic and sensor circuits with firmware biased away fram maximum braking towards directional stability.

There are some limitations that will trip it up for a fraction of a second and I suspect you are noticing these.

One limitation is operational speed, at best 8M can detect blocking, unblock, and get back to maximum braking 3.75 times a second.

A practiced and highly skilled rider can have the wheel at the threshold a higher percentage of the time in good conditions then 8M can.

Next 2 wheels presents quite a challenge for 8M, more would be better.

With only 2 wheels, 8M struggles to figure when a wheel is blocking versus just speeding and decelerating over a bump or pot hole. Honestly, I activate abs 12 times a day on a short ride, and it has never been confused more then half a second, but it is disconcerting, especially if you don't understand what is happening, why, and how long until threshold braking will return.

3 years of 8M ABS use, and it has never been significantly wrong, but it's minorly wrong all the time. If anyone doesent understand how abs can be minority wrong, brake firmly while crossing a pothole, feel the brakes release as your coming out of the hole? Brake the same firmness with abs off through the same hole, the brakes won't release and the wheels won't skid.

8M is very good, but has limitations. In my book it is of huge benefit, but has drawbacks.

For what it's worth, I just recieved my certification on the new K1600 bmw's, as well as got to ride one hard (wheelies and stopies :). The K1600 uses a GEN3 abs system. It is lighter, faster, and less confuseable. I expect this tech to trickle down to help convert the last of the non abs converts, but probably not till 2013

Either way, the main reason for posting on this thread was to state my advice to keep the rubber side down, with abs or without.

Many happy miles.
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:52 AM   #81
Mark5PA
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Got my switch hooked up today. Works great. Thanks Stephen.
I highly recommend the switch, for those rare times you are on dirt, and have forgotten to push the button.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:15 AM   #82
sfwo79
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Laying it Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
Any other situations sliding on metal and plastic is better then rubber?
I once used the sliding stop technique of last resort when it was better to slide under the front end of a monster pickup than become the hood ornament. In this case, there was no escape right or left, and "getting low" was the way out and it worked. Thankfully.

I once overshot an increasing-radius turn getting on a highway, jumped the curb and ended up skidding across wet grass (upright) toward a small pond/swamp. I laid the bike down and managed to only partially submerge instead of careening headfirst into the bog.

In both cases I managed to get my leg out from under the bike. In both cases, the course of action of last resort - laying down the bike - turned out to be the right one and I'm not sure what I would have done if I had ABS at the time.

Maybe it's inexperience with ABS, or learning how to ride as a kid at flat track races, but I find it disconcerting to not have control over the method I would like to use to stop under certain conditions. On dry pavement, at speed, ABS is definitely my friend. I'm still not too keen on it under other conditions. But maybe I just need to get used to it as a new tool in the toolbox.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:21 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
I hear you Dave, and your methods are sound. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure........


Either way, the main reason for posting on this thread was to state my advice to keep the rubber side down, with abs or without.

Many happy miles.
I appreciate your explanation here. It really helps me to understand what's going on in a 2-wheel ABS system.

Cheers,

Dave
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:35 PM   #84
Miikka
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Switch hooked up

Got my ABS kill switch hooked up last week and finally had time to give it a proper test on backroads today.
Works great! One less thing to worry about when spending a day on gravel / dirt!
Thank you Stephen!

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Old 10-25-2012, 08:26 AM   #85
Hayate
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Cambus for other stuff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhizafa View Post
This won't mess with the computer? I had a problem with my rear ABS sensor (got hit pretty hard and didn't work after) and it messed with other things, I remember the turn signals not turning off, can't remember what else.
I pulled the rear wheel sensor wire into contact with the tire and tore it up (not intentionally as that sentence sounded). The wires being broken there is what this switch you guys are talking about would do right? So I guess I can comment on what experience I had with that. I didn't take note of the auto-off on the turn signals, but I did notice other accessory functions not working. The heated trips wouldn't fire up. I reconnected the rear wheel sensor with some electrical tape and they started working again (along with the ABS). I seem to recall one other "extra" that was also on that same system, like the computer or mileage sensor or something.

Anyway, I just thought I'd say, TEST EVERYTHING if you are going to wire in a switch to break the ABS circuit. I figured it was all the stuff off the same bus that wouldn't work if one was out.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:08 AM   #86
Baitfish
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Question Canbus switch to cut ABS while moving

From an earlier post, pulling the plug under the seat or tapping into that circuit with a switch deactivates the ABS.
This may be a silly question but ...
could you use one of those autoswitch AS7 units running off the standard ABS override switch with a relay to do this?
That would be the ultimate - using a double push of the ABS switch to cut the system while moving and another double push to reactivate it as you get back onto the bitumen. Seems like this idea only works for the off cycle and not for back on - have to shut the bike down for that one ?

Being able to switch while moving would certainly save the having to stop to reset on or off.
Only thing worse is my mate on his 1200GS stopping everytime we hit dirt to change his ESC setting .
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:06 PM   #87
Burnszilla
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I will be selling these ABS switch cables again on BurnsMoto.com in about a week. I will have 20 units available in the first batch. Please follow the vendor thread here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...0#post22425740
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:42 PM   #88
Burnszilla
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I will be selling these ABS switch cables again on BurnsMoto.com in about a week. I will have 20 units available in the first batch. Please follow the vendor thread here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...0#post22425740
NOW IN STOCK.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:12 PM   #89
Philthy!
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What happens to the ABS light?

So for those of you that have installed the switch, does the ABS light on the dash stay lit or does it blink? I've looked through all the threads (thanks for the reply Stephen), but can't seem to find an answer. Thanks in advance.
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:27 AM   #90
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It stays lit

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