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Old 06-01-2011, 06:32 AM   #31
FreeTheBeast
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Laugh +1

Self contained is my opinion, as well. These are motorcycle events to be arrived at by motorcycle. Granted, other folks have good reasons they need to trailer their bike. But for me, I like to ride there and ride home. It makes it more of a *thing* for me. If I want to ride my 450X in the woods, I do it locally.

That's my 2 pence worth. (I'm heading over to England and Scotland later this week. I need to start adjusting to the currency.)

~ap

Quote:
Originally Posted by loph917 View Post
i'm mixed on the whole support truck thing. if this is truly a 'rally' where the idea is to haul ass between point a and point b for a certain period of time (3 days, 1 week, etc) then sure i guess it is just a supported ride. a la dakar (i'm not suggesting we race or it is a race).

if the idea is to showcase portions of the TCAT and how it is doable for the long haul (6-8-10 weeks as deadly99 estimates) then it should be done with full gear on the bike. after all, you won't have a support truck following you if you were actually riding the TCAT.

for me there are plenty of 1 or 2 day events where i can trailer either of my bikes and gear and rip for an entire day or two, camp, and then go home. this was my first 'extended' off-road (partially) fully-loaded trip and it provided me with a glimpse of what was possible.

either way, i'll stayed tuned for the Roaming Rally v2.0 details because it can only get better every time.
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailer View Post
I think hauling camping gear/personal gear just weighs down the bikes, making off road riding even that much more difficult, so I would say a support vehicle is a great idea, almost a necessity.

As far as an entrance fee or route fee, I think in exchange for signage on the course included with a route sheet (that could be fed into a route sheet holder), and in addition to GPS tracking option that was offered this year, a fee is acceptable. I personally would be happy to pay a $20 fee to have better and redundant navigational assistance.

The proceeds from this fee could be used to cover the expenses such as signage, supplies for route sheets, and gas to have host organizers/volunteers pre-ride the course.
(the above is snipped for brevity in several places)

Just have to respond to this with some comments on how the scenario might evolve ..

As soon as money starts to be collected you need to account for it and have a bank account for it. This requires having an entity to register it under and a volunteer to keep track of it and account for it if required. Financial statements etc....

As soon as routes are marked and supplied in detail you need to start thinking about carrying insurance for liability. This means becoming a registered club with an executive that is listed in the club documents. The CMA (Canadian Motorcycle Association) has to be approached with the route detailed for them and they need 6 weeks to process it and supply the insurance. And there is no guarantee that they'd approve the route either.

We'd need to have a registration table with someone to man it and keep track of bits of paper and signatures. A lawyer would suggest a waiver and require people to sign that as well. Then we'd need people to start keeping track of everyone, people stationed along the route counting heads. Someone at the campground ticking the riders off a list as they arrive. Someone responsible to go looking for you after a certain time. Gawd, the possibilities to turn what really was an Adventure Flash Mob into an organised event are huge here.

And, also, as soon as someone starts to take 'responsibility' for the whole event and accepting money they become a target for blame. People start grinding axes and wandering around looking for 'someone in charge' to bitch at.

How do I know all this? I was membership secretary/rally registrar for the Ducati Owners Club of Canada track rallies for three years.

They are all great suggestions and a rally like that would be superb but it would have to be run by a for-profit business or an accredited club to do it properly and I'm not sure that's really in the spirit of what we had last weekend.
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dresda screwed with this post 06-01-2011 at 07:12 AM
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:06 AM   #33
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As Stephanie mentioned: Adventure Flash Mob - that's pretty much what we had last weekend. And my vote would be to keep it that way.
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:14 AM   #34
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Eek Reality check...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
As Stephanie mentioned: Adventure Flash Mob - that's pretty much what we had last weekend. And my vote would be to keep it that way.

Me, too!
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:23 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
As Stephanie mentioned: Adventure Flash Mob - that's pretty much what we had last weekend. And my vote would be to keep it that way.

I agree w/ Stephanie and Mike... If it is too organized, figures are pointed.
"suggested routes"
"putting your gear in a vehical is a favour" That should be worth some kind of gratuity. No fixed rate. It did work out for her on the present ride. thank you all who contributed....
"where we meet is a suggestion"
"where we camp is a suggestion"

Everyone is responcible for themselves..... I will not be part of any blaming that "could" go on.... I for one will help anyone that needs it, so will Naiomi.... expectations...ah..NO..
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:38 AM   #36
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YESSSS! Quebec and more TCAT is perfect. No time to work on my route up there now though because I need to go pick up some more freeze dried meals and lay out the camping gear and.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadly99 View Post
No worries....Jimmy and I have already been chatting and I know of some crazy stuff in Quebec......the TCAT

I don't think it will disappoint, a few "doable" optional sections, a couple of back to back 200 km (120 mile) sandy, twisty roller coasters. Google Parent Quebec

Pre riding starts soon
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:43 AM   #37
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I agree. If the book on the TCAT comes out we can say we are meeting at X hotel for drinks the on this day then meeting here the next morning. Start on page xxx of the TCAT book and finish on page yyy on Sunday. No liability, no worries, more beer and riding. Buyaa!

Someone better get typing, I WANT TO ORDER MY BOOK

Quote:
Originally Posted by dresda View Post
(the above is snipped for brevity in several places)

Just have to respond to this with some comments on how the scenario might evolve ..

As soon as money starts to be collected you need to account for it and have a bank account for it. This requires having an entity to register it under and a volunteer to keep track of it and account for it if required. Financial statements etc....

As soon as routes are marked and supplied in detail you need to start thinking about carrying insurance for liability. This means becoming a registered club with an executive that is listed in the club documents. The CMA (Canadian Motorcycle Association) has to be approached with the route detailed for them and they need 6 weeks to process it and supply the insurance. And there is no guarantee that they'd approve the route either.

We'd need to have a registration table with someone to man it and keep track of bits of paper and signatures. A lawyer would suggest a waiver and require people to sign that as well. Then we'd need people to start keeping track of everyone, people stationed along the route counting heads. Someone at the campground ticking the riders off a list as they arrive. Someone responsible to go looking for you after a certain time. Gawd, the possibilities to turn what really was an Adventure Flash Mob into an organised event are huge here.

And, also, as soon as someone starts to take 'responsibility' for the whole event and accepting money they become a target for blame. People start grinding axes and wandering around looking for 'someone in charge' to bitch at.

How do I know all this? I was membership secretary/rally registrar for the Ducati Owners Club of Canada track rallies for three years.

They are all great suggestions and a rally like that would be superb but it would have to be run by a for-profit business or an accredited club to do it properly and I'm not sure that's really in the spirit of what we had last weekend.
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:56 AM   #38
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My vote would be another section of the TCAT. Roaming was part of the fun but could still be acomplished from first night. If you have all your gear and ride to the first site loaded, you have run at least part fully loaded. the next day could launch and return to the same site. Bikes will be lighter wich could open up more tech sections for people if they are inclined.

As far as the org of the whole thing, suggested route "TCAT" sugested tech, and suggested accomidations. The camping for me was one of the best parts, mind you i did stay in a Yurt one night! The campfire chats and cooking was truly a part of the TCAT test. You will need to camp at least a few weeks to do the TCAT imho.

If we start to organise this with more detial other than support we will get into issues and insurance. You will need sweeps and head counting. This ride was perfect. If it was organised Nolan would not have been able to run day 1 and part of Day 2 into the night without causing stress to the "organisers".

Qubec is fun. Great roads, great food, small language barrier but that still happened from both sides of the boarder! HAHAHA.

It may be better a little later, Northern qubec is pretty chilly and possibly wet until June or later.

I had a blast, i will be there to see all you guys and girls next year!
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:17 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by 4badboyz View Post
. . . I brought WAY too much crap. 90% of it didn't even come out of the bag . . .
Most people brought way too much crap IMO.

I had no problem packing what I needed on my DR350 without feeling overloaded. I had everything I needed for an extended road trip and could have stayed on the road much longer without packing anything additional. I rode some pretty gnarly tech sections and didn't find the load to be an issue, but I wasn't overloaded. "Light & fast", like Deadly said!

I liked the format. Would hate to see it change. I'm not interested in having my gear hauled in a truck. However, it is great to have some kind of support for anyone that runs into trouble. Another section of the TCAT next year, like Quebec would be awesome!
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:32 AM   #40
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Quite a few people are suggesting changes that would make things more convenient but take the thrill out of this ride. There were countless GS's with three big boxes and stuff tied to the top. There is no way you need that much 'stuff' to pull off a 5 day ride. The DR650 is over-sized but doable on single track as I had it loaded for this ride. The route was plenty possible for a moderately experienced 800/1200 with side cases and top boxes. If you are not moderately experienced you have a year to hit the trails and get that way or look for a bike more suitable. Perhaps instead of dumbing down the ride by making it one where the riders don't carry gear we agree to pack lighter.

I do not want route arrows because half way through the day I may decide that the route sucks and change things up. That is the fun of a "suggested route" If there is a signed route and someone is missing at the end of the day you would be angry if that someone is not on the route. As it is, that someone is responsible for them selves and if they are worried they will have a spot tracker.

I am against a published hotel option. Riders had that option for this ride. If they were worried about being cold and wet at night they could have made reservations at one of the nearby hotels under their own initiative. As has been mentioned already, the group conversations around the camp fire are part of the experience. This ride cost quit a bit already, lets not alienate people by making it too expensive to participate.
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:10 PM   #41
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...lets not alienate people by making it too expensive to participate.
All excellent suggestions.
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:57 PM   #42
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Seems like a consensus

TCAT to Ottawa from somewhere in Quebec. Informal....we'll suggest a route.

Camping may be mandatory....sweet beach on a lake..informal camping (aka there is nothing there...no "facilities").

There will be a few long stretches of remote sandy roads but i'll wager they won't disappoint. A handful of trails that are doable

Same time next year

See ya next Memorial day, we've got some pre riding to do
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:21 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadly99 View Post
Seems like a consensus

TCAT to Ottawa from somewhere in Quebec. Informal....we'll suggest a route.

Camping may be mandatory....sweet beach on a lake..informal camping (aka there is nothing there...no "facilities").

There will be a few long stretches of remote sandy roads but i'll wager they won't disappoint. A handful of trails that are doable

Same time next year

See ya next Memorial day, we've got some pre riding to do
Hey Ted

If your talking about the route we did last year I'm pretty sure there will be quite a few happy people at the end of the day. Absolutely beautiful area to ride.

Couple of teaser pics











possible camping area. nice sandy beach



Dave
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:01 PM   #44
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I agree with keeping the same theme as this year, plenty of other rallies and local stuff to run naked bikes in more technical terrain. And from my own experience hosting 2 (so far-#3 is July 30/31-see my sig line) recreational adv/RTR rallies keeping it a guerilla style takes a whole lot of stress and headache off of the organizers.

Plus it's all about the TCAT which does imply you're carrying what you need for multiple days on the road. That being said a vehicle capable of hauling a broken bike running around in the background is a great idea.

as for timing, Memorial Day isn't bad but damn the weather is dicey in my neck of the woods for getting back and forth, a week or even 2 weeks can make a helluva a lot of difference especially for anyone contemplating a run across the Trans Labrador highway as part of their trip. Northern Quebec could easily still bbe under snow

I'm all in for a Quebec venue too
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:21 PM   #45
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Good consensus.

Everything about this trip was perfect. Except the lack of vacation hours from work.

Deadly, Juames, the rest of you... your hobby has made quite a lot of people happy. You Rock.
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