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Old 06-11-2011, 07:50 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by BC61 View Post
will the routes be available by the end of summer for training rides? Will you be out riding then?
Just keep in touch with Charlie, and we'll see what might be ready by then.

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Rob is this anywhere near Coral Pinks Sand Dunes?
No that's not Coral Pink. I originally had Coral Pink included in one stage, but that stage ended up being too many miles, so that distant point got dropped.

Here are a couple more dunes shots from prerun 3.





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Originally Posted by rufus View Post
There is a whole shitload of us out here who are past our "training" stage in life. BUT still young enough to want a good long tough ride every once in a while. We don't want to have to study a road book. We like detailed maps and GPS tracks. We have spare money to pay for these things. Quality is more important than price. We have spent tons of money on cruises and vacations to Hawaii, Disneyland etc. A few hundred for good maps and GPS tracks makes for a cheap vacation (comparatively).

Something to think about.
I hear you. But this is not about money. It's a huge looser in that respect, even if it were done the way you described. My focus is 100% on a rally roadbook navigated ride. I know that discourages a LOT of people. But my goal right now is not to serve the largest crowd, it's to serve the tiny rally crowd. Once it has served that purpose for a while, then I'll post the GPS tracks and let everyone have at it.

Is the roadbook (not roll chart) really THAT revolting? If you're looking for a challenging ride, navigation by roadbook beats the hell out of a green line on a GPS screen. You'll get yourself lost several times a day with the roadbook, and have to use your wits to get back on track. It's a whole added level of tough on top of the riding, making for a more adventurous ride, and greater satisfaction and feeling of accomplishment when you finish each day.
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:06 PM   #32
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:07 PM   #33
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Once it has served that purpose for a while, then I'll post the GPS tracks and let everyone have at it.


I can dig it. .........Lots of us will be eagerly waiting.
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:23 PM   #34
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Is the roadbook (not roll chart) really THAT revolting?


NO..It's all about TIME. Navigation eats up time. I have used roll charts (never a road book) and GPS. GPS is faster and lets you focus on the RIDE. Most of us have to take time away from work and family to do these kind of rides. Less time spent on navigation means more time riding.

I/we used GPS on the western TAT. If you are looking at the scenery and blow a corner it is no big deal with a GPS. No resetting an odo or rolling back paper, or trying to figure out where you are, just look for the line and go to it.
I understand people looking for a challenge, lots of people like timekeeper enduros, but lots more don't.
The 2 best things I had on the TAT were a 6.6 gallon acerbis tank and my 276c. Fill up in the morning and not worry about gas all day. Turn on the GPS and just go.


I think that it is fantastic that guys like you put out the time and effort to do what you are doing. Most of us don't have the time to do it. We really really appreciate it. And lots of us will be glad when what you are doing trickles down to us.


Thanks in advance and
HAPPY TRAILS!!!
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:37 PM   #35
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I've ridden some of HogWild's roadbook routes, and he does an extremely good job of making it a realistic Rally simulation, meaning it's more than a dualsport ride. It's more of a puzzle, or a game. GPS tracks wouldn't be the same at all.

I really appreciate the work the Scott does- it helps to train pretty much all American rally riders and hopefuls.

He pointed out Crawdads' DS route if that's what you are looking for; rally navigation is an entirely different thing.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:06 PM   #36
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It's all about TIME. Navigation eats up time.
There are multiple ways to look at that.

If the roadbook says 6.3 miles to the next navigation point, then you don't have to look down again for a while. You just stay on the same road or trail you're on, ignoring all offshoots. In that same section, with a GPS track you will need to keep looking down after each intersection to see if you've missed a turn. So, depending on the situation, roadbook navigation can actually take less time. But it definately takes more thinking.

My routes are unlike most other rides. I take offshoot roads and trails a lot more often than others. And they are very often nearly invisible as you ride by. In fact, if it's a well hidden little used trail, then you can almost be assured that my route will take it! So you have to really be on your toes no matter how you navigate my routes. If your goal is to put in as many miles as possible, my stuff is not for you. On the other had, if your goal is to have an intense exprience, then that's what you'll get. The Grand Rally is about more mental and physical challenges per mile, not more miles per day.

For many, the navigation challenge is a major part of the experience. It's sort of like people who don't do off-roading asking why you don't just take the highway to get to your destination. Some see it as a hassle, others see it as the main attraction.

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It's more of a puzzle, or a game.
Don't leak those secrets. They aren't supposed to figure that out until they are half way in, and have to find their way out!
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:53 AM   #37
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...roadbook navigation can actually take less time. But it definately takes more thinking.
Agree 100%. It's all about personal preference, I guess. I'm solidly planted in the "hate to follow GPS--too hard/slow" camp. Scott, you nailed the key for me, which is that a roadbook tells you "chill, look around, next turn isn't for 1.2 miles".

Some like GPS, some like roadbooks. Celebrate diversity! (and keep up the great work for the roadbook crew)

Dave
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:02 AM   #38
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Don't leak those secrets. They aren't supposed to figure that out until they are half way in, and have to find their way out!
Evil, evil man.
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:30 AM   #39
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i've ridden some of hogwild's roadbook routes, and he does an extremely good job of making it a realistic rally simulation, meaning it's more than a dualsport ride. It's more of a puzzle, or a game. Gps tracks wouldn't be the same at all.

I really appreciate the work the scott does- it helps to train pretty much all american rally riders and hopefuls.

He pointed out crawdads' ds route if that's what you are looking for; rally navigation is an entirely different thing.

+1 !!
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:37 PM   #40
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Most of us have to take time away from work and family to do these kind of rides. Less time spent on navigation means more time riding.
I can assure you, having done most of Hogwild's routes.... If you can finish the course every day, which is not so easy (as most days in the Grand Rally are over 300 miles), you won't be thinking that you didn't get enough riding in.
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:34 PM   #41
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My biggest complaint about roll chart /road book navigation is when my odo doesn't agree with the roll chart. There have been sections like this every time I have used a roll chart. If i ride a long wheelie, which I occasionally do, then I am off a couple of tenths.
I am gonna shut up now, because I don't want my opinion to be interpreted as a criticism in any way. It is not.

I am gonna keep up with this thread though.
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:38 PM   #42
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I can assure you, having done most of Hogwild's routes.... If you can finish the course every day, which is not so easy (as most days in the Grand Rally are over 300 miles), you won't be thinking that you didn't get enough riding in.


Sounds interesting. Many many years ago i was the sweep rider at the Zink ranch for several 3 and 4 day AMA qualifiers. 150 miles per day of very tough single track. I couldn't do that today. .........A lot of the entrants couldn't do it back then.
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:33 PM   #43
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If i ride a long wheelie, which I occasionally do, then I am off a couple of tenths.
Damn, I never thought of that one. In the next roadbook, I'll put in there that you have to wheelie for one mile then put your wheel down for the remainder of the distance to the next waypoint. And I'll adjust the roadbook mileage so it's only correct if you do it right. Great idea rufus!

Oh wait, is that going to work?

rufus, I appreciate your comments. I know there are plenty of people that see it like you. You gave me and the others the chance to point out a few things about these roadbook rides that I don't think many are aware of. It's all good discussion.
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Old 06-13-2011, 08:11 AM   #44
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Damn, I never thought of that one.
Hey Scott,
Please spare a thought for us fortunate enough to have purchased a US made 'Christini' AWD, a spinning front wheel really screws with the ICO!
Overcome that one in your roadbook if you can!
No, don't, just stick to what you do best and keep doing what you do!
Road book navigation rocks!
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barrier screwed with this post 06-13-2011 at 08:43 AM
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Old 06-13-2011, 08:36 AM   #45
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so when should we go from Portugal?
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