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Old 06-08-2011, 12:23 PM   #61
ph0rk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post

Consider how often you find yourself riding for hundreds of miles in these conditions each year and make the appropriate choice for the lion's share of the riding conditions normally encountered.
Pretty much every weekend trip I take from june (hell, may now) to september has temps in the mid 90's +. They're all "hundreds" of miles.

On a 'strom, a calsci medium screen isn't enough windblock to make mesh work. If some mesh flows a lower amount of air it would probably be ok, but then it would be somewhat questionable from 80-90 degrees, compared to a vented solid jacket. When things are going right I can consume a bit less than a liter of water per 90 minutes in temps over 95. If I wear mesh I'll blow through almost two liters in that time, be drenched, and still feel thirsty and prematurely tired.

Everyone and every bike is different, but in the southeast we have entire weeks where mesh won't cut it in the lowlands, especially riding over blacktop.

I don't recommend mesh jackets to locals looking for something for hot weather. Of course, most locals would rather wear shorts and a t-shirt, so they don't ask all that often.

For 10-20 minute commute trips? Sure. Of course in the Southeast you'll be half damp before you even turn the key.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:33 PM   #62
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I've nicknamed my Roadcrafter (not the light version) "the sauna". Commuting home today, 91 degrees and 80% humdity) I wore my "hot weather teaching" Bermudas and short sleeved dress shirt under the 'Stich. A wet bandanna around my neck and the contents of two ice cube trays down through the back vent made the 30 minute ride (avg speed, 30 mph) bearable.
Mind you the temperature today was out of the ordinary.
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:10 PM   #63
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I soaked a shop towel in the water fountain before i left work today. Wrapped it around my neck and then zipped the jacket over it. Worked like a charm, even sitting in traffic. My jacket has zippered vents right below the shoulders, right where the towel was. Better than A/C. It was 94 today. Lots of bikes out today, and i didn't see a single other person ATGATT. Hand full of helmets, but that was it.
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Old 06-09-2011, 03:28 AM   #64
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I wear mesh in summer and it works for me. I do sometimes use cooling vests and I suppose the extra mosture may make some difference. Before the vest I would just drench a shirt at every stop when it was hot. Of course I'm no IB wanabe either. I stop often and take breaks anytime, when riding I just don't care when I get there.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:29 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Finally read the IronButt article and it seems that I'm doing everything right...
Got to agree with your summation. Seems wearing mesh, and nothing else on an unfaired bike is the an issue at temps above 93 degrees.

Stick a windshield on the bike that blocks the majority of the wind from hitting the rider and you've pretty much circumvented the "issue" with mesh gear.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:44 PM   #66
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Yesterday just happened to be right at the 93-degree threshold and I had my usual vented jacket (not mesh) with safety vest over and it was hot, but not unbearable for my 30-minute commute. The vents seem to provide enough air movement to provide some cooling by evaporating my sweat, but not so much as to dry me out. I was pretty soaked with sweat by the time I got home. One thing everyone should try is a white helmet, which I think helps a lot. Also, I suspect that helmet cooling is very important and that is where a lot of gear falls down. I know my helmet is deficient in the vent department. I personally do not like to ride without a full-coverage helmet and face screen. I wonder if manufacturers could make some sort of small water reservoir in the helmet that gradually fed a layer near your skull which would then evaporate and cool your head, and therefore your whole body?
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:17 PM   #67
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As an FYI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuwei View Post
One thing everyone should try is a white helmet, which I think helps a lot.
Many years ago a motorcycle magazine did a comprehensive test and found that the color of a helmet had no measurable effect on the inside temperature.

My guess is that the shock-absorbing foam lining makes an excellent insulator.

However, for safety, a white helmet was found to be the color most often seen by other drivers. Perhaps this is because moto-cops wear white helmets?
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:34 AM   #68
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Many years ago a motorcycle magazine did a comprehensive test and found that the color of a helmet had no measurable effect on the inside temperature.
I have read that too, but I find it really hard to believe. It seems to defy common sense. You can feel the difference yourself when you touch something black and something white that have been sitting in the sun for awhile. When I lived in the south I couldn't touch my steering wheel (black) if the car had been sitting in the sun for awhile, but the body of the car (white) was comfortable to the touch. I read a study somewhere that said if everyone in the south just painted the roofs of their houses white there would be a huge energy savings.
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Old 06-13-2011, 08:18 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuwei View Post
I have read that too, but I find it really hard to believe. It seems to defy common sense. You can feel the difference yourself when you touch something black and something white that have been sitting in the sun for awhile. When I lived in the south I couldn't touch my steering wheel (black) if the car had been sitting in the sun for awhile, but the body of the car (white) was comfortable to the touch. I read a study somewhere that said if everyone in the south just painted the roofs of their houses white there would be a huge energy savings.
Comprehensive reading...


EPS Foam...liner...inside...helmet...insulation...

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Old 06-13-2011, 09:15 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuwei View Post
I have read that too, but I find it really hard to believe. It seems to defy common sense. You can feel the difference yourself when you touch something black and something white that have been sitting in the sun for awhile. When I lived in the south I couldn't touch my steering wheel (black) if the car had been sitting in the sun for awhile, but the body of the car (white) was comfortable to the touch. I read a study somewhere that said if everyone in the south just painted the roofs of their houses white there would be a huge energy savings.
There's a little more to consider. If the helmet was completely closed and had a greenhouse of windows installed all around it, with objects and materials inside that would absorb the heat, then it would get just as hot as the inside of your car.

Put a layer of foam over the interior surfaces of your car between the sun and the interior, vent it and fill the void with a liquid cooled object (like the rider's head in a helmet) and there will be less heat build up and better dissipation.

The riding suit I wear is black and it doesn't absorb heat at all. It's one of the properties of the material.

A dark painted helmet could become hot to the touch on the outside, but the inside remains essentially the temp of the rider's head.

It is easier and less expensive to paint a roof of a house with a IR reflective paint, or use a material that does not absorb and radiate heat, than it is to place an inch or two of foam between the roof surface and the attic space, the way a helmet is made.

Thermodynamics is an interesting thing to study and understand. There are a lot of aspects that can affect the transference and accumulation of heat.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:39 AM   #71
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One thing to keep in mind is the type of riding that is being done. An IBR participant or even the guy on a long weekend trip is going to have different cooling needs than the commuter or the day tripper who doesn't go more than an hour at a time.

Holding in moisture and preventing air flow to my skin is something I actively avoid. I wear mesh in the summer and it gets well above 93 here in VA. Its also a very humid 93+. I want all the air flow I can get for my 37 mile commute. I want the take advantage of any evaporative cooling that can be had. I am never more than 60 minutes away from a big gulp of water and I stay well hydrated before my commute so dehydration just isn't a concern.

What is not possible is to soak my shirt, put ice on my neck or soaking my head. None of that gets me to my destination in a condition in which I can work.

I'm not riding to ride. I'm riding to make it to and from work in the most enjoyable way possible. Mesh makes a big difference for me. I understand the down side in longer distance riding but for me, its the best solution.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:51 AM   #72
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:41 AM   #73
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Quote:
EPS Foam...liner...inside...helmet...insulation...
Yes, but even insulation will heat up eventually due to conduction from the black shell. So, even if air movement will mean the black helmet can remain as cool as a white helmet at speed that effect won't happen if say you're stuck in a traffic jam, or you just want to leave your helmet on your bike while you eat lunch.

Here's what we all need--something that goes inside the helmet to keep you cooler.
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Wuwei screwed with this post 06-13-2011 at 10:57 AM
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:30 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuwei View Post
Yes, but even insulation will heat up eventually due to conduction from the black shell. So, even if air movement will mean the black helmet can remain as cool as a white helmet at speed that effect won't happen if say you're stuck in a traffic jam, or you just want to leave your helmet on your bike while you eat lunch.

Here's what we all need--something that goes inside the helmet to keep you cooler.
Head skins, helmet liners and the materials in the article will certainly help.

There is one thing that already goes inside your helmet to keep you cooler. Your head. It includes a very complicated organic temperature control system that uses a variety of methods to regulate the temperature of the brain to the exclusion of many other sub-systems under certain conditions.

Manage the gear you wear to allow the temp of your body core to stay at 98.6F, coupled with proper hydration, and your head will remain comfy.

Do some research on the heat conductivity of that foam and you will find your theory to represent negligible, if not imperceptible heat gain from the outer shell.

When compared to the heat transfer by your bloodstream from the core to the head, there won't be enough heat conducting through the foam to make any significant difference in your comfort level.

On the other hand, if you are not getting enough evaporative cooling from sweating, for any of a number of reasons (hydration, air flow, etc.) your core temperature will rise.

There is also the mind over matter aspect, where if you believe that your head is hotter, your body might just do everything it can to meet your expectations.

Think cool, be cool. Ommmmmmmmm.
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:44 AM   #75
HouseOfDexter
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ahh...Heat...a subject dear to me

It North Texas...we see both types...Dry Heat...and the Nasty Humid Heat...

This weekend did 900 miles in 93-95F in pretty much Dry Heat...On my Triumph Thunderbird Sport......I wore WalMart Under Armor knockoff, Leather Jacket...A* TX-1(with A* Bionic 2 Jacket under it)...it has a small strip of perforations along the shoulder/collar bone area...and a stretchy mesh type fabric on the underside of the sleeves. My Pants are Full Textile with no vents. During most of the ride. I just re-hydrated with water. On the last 200 miles on Sunday...when the temps started to get around 98F...I got serious about surviving the heat<95F and less and I don't even get phased>...I put my evaporation vest(from SixSixOne Core-Cooler Evaporation Vest under my Armor...filled up my Camelback...and I was good to go...as I'm posting this I survived it.

This all works great when your on the road...and moving...It's sucks when your commuting in stop and go traffic or sitting at lights or in High Death dealing Humidity. Evaporation doesn't work very under these conditions...and I would look into Phase Change Jacket...
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