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Old 06-29-2011, 06:17 PM   #961
slowoldguy
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We're loosing money on every sale, but we'll make it up in volume…
Now you are stealing my business plan. Selling dimes for a nickel. I've made a small fortune that way. Out of a large one.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:17 PM   #962
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Originally Posted by Codewheeney View Post
I heard it was going to be a complete water-cooled R1300GS motor and drivetrain with brackets to fit into the 1150 frame.

JC
So the real question is are they gunna be stock brackets or custom ones?

JJ
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:30 PM   #963
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About a month ago I came close to selling my GSA and XCountry and buying an F800GS. (One bike can be better than two if it really fits.) The deal came to a screeching halt when I rode an 800 down a forest trail -- the bike has a WICKED on/off throttle transition that's well documented on this site. And all the work-arounds are uninspiring.

Yesterday, I rode Angeles Crest with a friend, he on a WeeStrom and me on my IICE Air-less GSA (grin), and I again wondered about the 800, so mid-sized and attractive.

Would installing an IICE Air on an 800 smooth out that transition?
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:51 PM   #964
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Originally Posted by Geoffster View Post
About a month ago I came close to selling my GSA and XCountry and buying an F800GS. (One bike can be better than two if it really fits.) The deal came to a screeching halt when I rode an 800 down a forest trail -- the bike has a WICKED on/off throttle transition that's well documented on this site. And all the work-arounds are uninspiring.

Yesterday, I rode Angeles Crest with a friend, he on a WeeStrom and me on my IICE Air-less GSA (grin), and I again wondered about the 800, so mid-sized and attractive.

Would installing an IICE Air on an 800 smooth out that transition?
The ADV chatter here points to the G2 cam solution. It looked promising. Not so? I've been doin' some pining after the 800GS as well, and was kinda counting on this.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:58 PM   #965
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We're loosing money on every sale, but we'll make it up in volume…
L-u-u-u-cy! You have some splainin' to do!

Of course this whole 1st assembly product run is WAY more complicated than the next IICE product will be, so after this steep learning curve, IICE Cube (or is it D-coffee, or block ) will be a breeze in comparison…
Yes this thing is just super tedious is all. And many of the little steps required trial and error, and/or testing, and ended up scrap. It had to be this way, the smallest available enclosure, part waterproof, and adjustable, and etc., etc.

Now that I have it all worked out, I sort of don't want to stop selling them. Time in and all, you know? But I also do want to get on with the next products. What's the latest name from marketing? IICE-D Coffee?

The first of the next products, presently known as the IICE Cool (unless I get a memo to the contrary ), is all electronic and will be much easier to build.



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Old 06-29-2011, 10:01 PM   #966
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Originally Posted by sonic578 View Post
The ADV chatter here points to the G2 cam solution. It looked promising. Not so? I've been doin' some pining after the 800GS as well, and was kinda counting on this.
I consider it to be a crude -- and difficult (because of heated grips) -- sort of work-around.

Allowing me to more carefully modulate the bike's throttle plates doesn't address the unfriendly programming of the ECU. Nor does changing to a smaller countershaft sprocket to get the RPMs out of the most critical zone.

IMHO the F800GS needs serious ECU help, whether from the factory or via a POOLSIDE PRODUCT.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:18 AM   #967
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Originally Posted by Geoffster View Post
About a month ago I came close to selling my GSA and XCountry and buying an F800GS. (One bike can be better than two if it really fits.) The deal came to a screeching halt when I rode an 800 down a forest trail -- the bike has a WICKED on/off throttle transition that's well documented on this site. And all the work-arounds are uninspiring.

Yesterday, I rode Angeles Crest with a friend, he on a WeeStrom and me on my IICE Air-less GSA (grin), and I again wondered about the 800, so mid-sized and attractive.

Would installing an IICE Air on an 800 smooth out that transition?
Well, my immediate answer would have to be, "Of course it smooths out the transition!" (In my best infomercial tone.) Yea I know, "What the heck are you trying to pull, Jim?"

I realize that may sound kind of silly. Especially since I've never ridden an F800. But I have have many technical reasons that inform me to answer yes to the question. Many, technical, reasons. So many you wouldn't want to read them all.

All right. I'll relent. Here's one technical thing about what causes the jerkiness. When the throttle is first opened, ideally the ECU should add some good amount of extra fuel. Momentary extra fuel over and above the amount needed for proper mixture. Without enough of that momentary extra fuel, when the throttle is first opened the motor makes momentarily less power. Then, when the throttle is opened a few more degrees, bam! the power comes on normally.

But you still want to know how it works, and here's a practical idea. There is something better than all the tech talk. Ask the people who bought one of the competitive products how well they work on their F800. You know, the Boosterplug, Accelerator, etc. Maybe do a search and read their reviews in the Parallel Universe forum.


Regarding the throttle workaround. I like that elliptical throttle bellcrank example. Those reduced-slope bellcranks work well. Again, I haven't tried that particular item on an F800, but on other bikes. It makes a big difference on a KTM Adventure, and on a couple of liter race-rep bikes.

I understand you'd rather not lose the right side heated grip, and there might be a way to save it. The elliptical cable bellcrank can be placed at the throttle body end of the cable instead of at the twist grip.

And a interesting tech note about drive-by-wire throttles. The electronic throttle servos open the throttle butterflies with the same reduced-slope profile as the mechanical versions.



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Old 06-30-2011, 06:08 AM   #968
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Yes this thing is just super tedious is all. And many of the little steps required trial and error, and/or testing, and ended up scrap. It had to be this way, the smallest available enclosure, part waterproof, and adjustable, and etc., etc.

Now that I have it all worked out, I sort of don't want to stop selling them. Time in and all, you know? But I also do want to get on with the next products. What's the latest name from marketing? IICE-D Coffee?

The first of the next products, presently known as the IICE Cool (unless I get a memo to the contrary ), is all electronic and will be much easier to build.




Wait a minute,stop waisting the spare parts.Im hoping for some overruns so I can still buy one.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:33 AM   #969
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Well, my immediate answer would have to be, "Of course it smooths out the transition!" (In my best infomercial tone.) Yea I know, "What the heck are you trying to pull, Jim?"

I realize that may sound kind of silly. Especially since I've never ridden an F800. But I have have many technical reasons that inform me to answer yes to the question. Many, technical, reasons. So many you wouldn't want to read them all.

All right. I'll relent. Here's one technical thing about what causes the jerkiness. When the throttle is first opened, ideally the ECU should add some good amount of extra fuel. Momentary extra fuel over and above the amount needed for proper mixture. Without enough of that momentary extra fuel, when the throttle is first opened the motor makes momentarily less power. Then, when the throttle is opened a few more degrees, bam! the power comes on normally.

But you still want to know how it works, and here's a practical idea. There is something better than all the tech talk. Ask the people who bought one of the competitive products how well they work on their F800. You know, the Boosterplug, Accelerator, etc. Maybe do a search and read their reviews in the Parallel Universe forum.


Regarding the throttle workaround. I like that elliptical throttle bellcrank example. Those reduced-slope bellcranks work well. Again, I haven't tried that particular item on an F800, but on other bikes. It makes a big difference on a KTM Adventure, and on a couple of liter race-rep bikes.

I understand you'd rather not lose the right side heated grip, and there might be a way to save it. The elliptical cable bellcrank can be placed at the throttle body end of the cable instead of at the twist grip.

And a interesting tech note about drive-by-wire throttles. The electronic throttle servos open the throttle butterflies with the same reduced-slope profile as the mechanical versions.


Jim,

Thanks for your input! After cruising through postings on how competitors' products address the F800GS's on/off throttle issue, I will now pursue what many would consider a downgrade: GSA to F800GS.

Thanks for all you do for our community!

- g
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:12 AM   #970
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
...I understand you'd rather not lose the right side heated grip, and there might be a way to save it. The elliptical cable bellcrank can be placed at the throttle body end of the cable instead of at the twist grip....

Somewhere on one of the ADVRider threads there are some photos of a guy that did this (made the modification @ the throttle-body end).

In random commentary, I SWEAR the off-idle harshness mellows with time/age/miles....
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Old 07-02-2011, 12:31 PM   #971
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I know that a G2 throttle cam made my dirt bike rideable. Mellowed out the mid throttle hit a ton but WFO is still available when required. My budget for replacement plastic is drastically reduced since installing it!
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:07 PM   #972
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I know it doesn't belong here, but I did not start it. Want to solve the problem, do this. Add the G2 throttle tube. You can use your heated grips if you are not a klutz. Get a sharp knife, partially cut your hand grip and manfully tear it off. Under that is an electrical element. Pretty much like every other sold on the internet for 29.95. Peel it off and reapply on the new tube.

That solves 1/2 your problem. The other is a very lean running motor from idle to about 2200 rpm. An accelerator module or Booster plug will take care of that. It is plug and play with no history to worry yourself, if under warrany.

Buy the cheap one, $82 bucks. has all the same parts, the only difference is where one of the resisters lives. If you thought it made a difference you would not be posting here.
Uh, you do realize what thread you've just posted in don't you?

And while it will help solve the problem it really is only a work around. If the fuel injection mapping were correct to begin with then these sorts of mechanical work around's wouldn't be necessary.

edit: oh yeah they aren't resistors they're called thermistors, very different critter.

JJ
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:15 PM   #973
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Dang JJ, I was just going to put a post up with essentially the same comments. But I was getting a bite to eat.


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Old 07-02-2011, 01:27 PM   #974
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Dang JJ, I was just going to put a post up with essentially the same comments. But I was getting a bite to eat.

You're eating? I figured your Marketing Department would be running roughshod over you like a sweatshop foreman so that you could finish the first product and start working on the second. I know how Marketing Departments like to drink Mojitos on the beach while others work.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:48 PM   #975
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You're eating? I figured your Marketing Department would be running roughshod over you like a sweatshop foreman so that you could finish the first product and start working on the second. I know how Marketing Departments like to drink Mojitos on the beach while others work.
The marketing dept approves this message. Especially the "Mojitos on the beach while others work" part…

JJ
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