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Old 06-27-2005, 02:33 AM   #91
lasvegasrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaspipe
That would be the best option, if I could find a machinist that would be willing to resleeve the 1100 cylinder to 13mm from 20mm, and manufacture a piston from an aluminum bronze alloy......

That way, all the cables, and electrical connections would remain as they are.

Cold beer sounds good. I'm stuck on the 7/7 plan again, working Sat/Sun to make up for HU last weekend.

Are you gonna dive in Roatan while you're there?
Hey Bruce. Just got back. Great trip and yup, diving and such included (more on that later).

As to the issue at hand:

I expect you have looked at the mechanical interface (pivot/lever/piston) to possibly increase the caliper pressure for a given amount of master pressure/displacement. The step-down in size you are considering leads me to think that the small bore conversion is the better solution as a mechanical mod to the pivot/lever/piston acutuation points will be a waste of effort on your part as it will not do enough to overcome the hydualic pressure ratio issue.

Sleeving the master will not be a big issue, as long as the existing master can be lightly honed and allows the machinist to continue the existing fluid port-orifices into the sleeve that will be pressed in.

The piston though could be a bugger. Have you looked at using existing offerings from industrial / Kart / ATV / MX racing systems?

Of course, a seqential in-line secondary cylinder could provide for the step-up in pressure you are looking for, but that would complicate the simple nature of the configuration you have now.


Any chance that an alternate 4-pot caliper could get your pressure ratios back in the ballpark?
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Old 06-27-2005, 03:21 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasvegasrider
Sleeving the master will not be a big issue, as long as the existing master can be lightly honed and allows the machinist to continue the existing fluid port-orifices into the sleeve that will be pressed in.
I'm attempting to leave the switch/throttle assembly all original 1100 stuff, for simplicity and ease of parts availability.

I really want to avoid doing custom throttle cable, and stuff, but if I have to, I'll use an MX throttle and a custom cable, a radial master cylinder, but that raises turn signal/switch issues and such.

Anyway, I can't machine stuff that small and that precise with the lathe I have, so I need to find someone who can. Sleeving it down to 13mm from 20mm would be the best bet, but like you mentioned, turning down the piston might be tough. Might be best to find a 13mm from something else and machine it to fit

Quote:
Any chance that an alternate 4-pot caliper could get your pressure ratios back in the ballpark?
A 48mm 4 piston would be about right, but it would be really, really big. And there's a clearance issue with the spokes.

A 6 pot and the 16mm assembly from an 1150GS looks like a good bet, but it would be many, many hundreds more of gaspipe $$$

Keep those ideas rolling!

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Old 07-03-2005, 10:58 AM   #93
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On the brake cylinder, I am down to two scenarios:
1) Machine away the master cylinder from the control assembly on the milling machine, and buy a Magura 190 radial master cylinder to fill the void. These things are sweet, but pricey. They are available with shorty or regular levers. The regular lever will be needed.

2) Machine a sleeve and piston. I'm still researching pistons and seals to see if this is a reality and I can draw up some prints.
Other update(s):
I'll be running a 18" Sun rim on the rear of this bike rather than the 17", super wide, and bend-able OE Behr.

I used Elzar's spice weasle and kicked it up a notch, finding a non-ABS 3.36 rear drive from a R850R. An 1100, with that low 1st gear, should climb like a goat with that rear drive ratio. I also have a new 2.82 rear drive I can swap in, in the unlikely event that I need to drone down the interstate.

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Old 07-03-2005, 02:30 PM   #94
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Time to install the frame....

The old frame needs to come off, obviously, and it's relatively straight forward. Remove the beak, oil lines, fender, forks, handlebar, and triple clamp.



And the bike is now looking mostly dismantled.



But, the frame won't fit. It must have pulled a bit during welding or powdercoating, and is off by 3/8" at the wings. Hmmm....





Off to the hydraulic press, and I carefully spread the attaching lugs to match the BMW dimensions I got from the Telelever arm and the aluminum frame.

A little grinding was required to relieve the frame lug where it meets the motor on the forward mount, and the frame is installed.



Next, it's time to remount the beak, and install the triple clamps, forks and front wheel.
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Old 07-04-2005, 05:41 PM   #95
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Here's the relief I filed into the front frame lugs to accomodate the curvature of the motor. I recoated the machine marks with satin black rattle can paint to match the powder coating. I didn't worry about the face of the lug, it's bound to be scratched fitting the frame.



Steering head bearings packed, triple clamp and forks installed, beak reattached. I did not have to modify or redrill the beak lug on the steering head tube. Fit just fine.

The OE oil lines won't fit without modification, but I'm planning to make some -6 AN stainless oil lines up anyway. The rubber on the existing lines is 10 years old now, and it's time to replace them for the sake of reliability.

Those big 50mm 'Zoke Shiver forks mean business.



The triple clamp is a nice piece. Beefy.



Next, off comes the gauge pod and headlight. The former to be replaced by an IMO, the latter by a pair of projector headlights.
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Old 07-05-2005, 07:00 PM   #96
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Boy, do these things take time when you have a couple full time jobs.

Let's get a look at the wheel. I had to shim the hub 1.0 mm to center the wheel between the forks tubes. I made these from an aluminum alloy, 0.5 mm each.



With the wheel centered and double checked for correct spacing, it's time to have a look at the rotor. Rather than the 310mm Beringer rotor, I decided since I have to do some machining to make the caliper work, I'd just go with a 320mm rotor and make a caliper hanger from 6063 - T6 aluminum plate. I'm not sure whether I'll use the Galfer floating wave rotor, or a solid floating rotor - EBC makes a cheap 320mm ($100) rotor to fit the KTM hub. Yep, true.



That Galfer wave rotor looks cool, but is it what I really want to boil off speed on this 500lb dirt rocket?

Not sure on that yet. The clearance is tight, but this rotor (and the EBC) uses countersunk bolts rather than button head bolts, so all's well here.

Time to measure up a caliper hanger, and machine out a bracket to space the caliper on the rotor.

Stay tuned.
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Old 07-05-2005, 07:14 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaspipe
UPDATE

The spacer for the rotor showed up today. This is a part from a 2003 Super Motard. It measures 7.3mm thick. I'll probably have to cut it down a bit on the milling machine, but this will work nicely.

Because of the added thickness, I also got some 6mm x 25mm grade 12.9 flanged allen bolts. 174,000 psi yield, should be plenty strong enough.



Now to assemble it and set the spacing for the caliper and rotor. That will have to wait, since I'm riding over to North Carolina this weekend. More next week.
Are you using this spacer with the different rotor setup?...If not...I'm pretty sure I know a guy who will buy it from you... including paying you for your time to machine it down to about 5.5 mm thick...
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Old 07-05-2005, 07:55 PM   #98
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Robert,

The spacer is integral to making it work in this application. It's been cut down to .250", and I may cut another 10 or 20 1/1000ths, as I have the room. This will make the shear forces on the rotor bolts less, and also give me more 'meat' on the caliper hanger bracket (that I am manufacturing).

Back once upon a time, there were companies that would make offset rotors for custom applications. Basically, the center part that bolts to the hub was 'bent' to create the offset. I've lost contact with these guys since it's been 20 years. I'd like to find someone who'd create me a 340mm 5.5mm offset rotor - which would be perfect for our needs (I think). Usually, they'd come undrilled for the hub, but with a rotary table and the milling machine, it's easy to drill the pattern quite accurately.

A 340mm with a 6 pot would be a lot of brake.
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:39 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaspipe
Back once upon a time, there were companies that would make offset rotors for custom applications. Basically, the center part that bolts to the hub was 'bent' to create the offset. I've lost contact with these guys since it's been 20 years. I'd like to find someone who'd create me a 340mm 5.5mm offset rotor - which would be perfect for our needs (I think). Usually, they'd come undrilled for the hub, but with a rotary table and the milling machine, it's easy to drill the pattern quite accurately.

A 340mm with a 6 pot would be a lot of brake.
A laser cut rotor out of 4150 hot rolled 1/4" plate.. then blanchard grind it to your 5.5mm finished dim..

Should be pretty cheap. I know a few shops that will cut it from a .dxf file cheaply. A 14" OD peice is only a few bucks not counting the laser work.
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Old 07-07-2005, 10:05 PM   #100
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Time to cut the rotor spacer.



This spacer I got from KTM was just a few 1/10th too wide to mill at one time, so it turned into something of a PITA to cut down on the mill, requiring some gyrations to do.

So it didn't get warped or twisted, I made several cuts to take it to a final dimension of 0.250", which would give me adequate clearance for the caliper and the spokes, and also leave me enough 'meat' for the caliper hanger.



Then the finished piece, lapped and trued, bolt holes chamfered and ready to bolt up to the hub.

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Old 07-09-2005, 03:32 PM   #101
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I had a little time last night to make this a roller again, for the first time in a couple months.



The front wheel is a 21 x 1.85 Sun, stainless spokes, with a 90/90 x 21" TKC80 - freshly shod today. The front disc has been properly spaced and the disc mounted.



The rear wheel is a 18 x 3.5 Sun, stainless spokes, with a 140/80 x 18 TKC80. I have a MAP rear torque link [thanks to Jim Rowley of MAP Engineering] which will raise the rear about 1/2" or so, and it straightens out the kink between the rear drive and the Paralever. It is a beefy CNC'd slab of aluminum, and is a worthy addition to *ANY* 11xx GS.

The 18" rear requires machining about .25" off the rear shock lug for the tire to fit, and leave what I consider sufficient clearance for the carcass to grow at speed.



Still a lot to do, but most of the real precision machining is done, with the exception of the caliper hanger. That's the next item to tackle.

The bike is so tall now, the centerstand has to be shimmed up with 2" of planks. The sidestand will need a 4" piece of steel rod sectioned into it to work again.

Stay tuned......
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Old 07-09-2005, 03:43 PM   #102
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I'd also like to add, that although this seems like a daunting task, Motozilla did *a lot* of work sourcing out all these parts and having the vision to construct the frame and fork conversion. These pieces are of excellent quality superior craftsmanship.

Like any kit, there are a lot of things to fit and modify, much of this because of specific changes I have made to the basic concept.

Now that it's beginning to take shape, I am getting excited to finish it up.

I have sourced a Two Bros cat eliminator pipe, which I will mate to an aluminum muffler in my inventory of 'stuff', and also a plastic tank from a '95 bike. This will serve to drop perhaps 15 lbs or so, and pick up a bit of fuel capacity at the same time.

Note the instrument pod and headlight are gone. A Touratech Desierto Rally fairing and IMO dash system will replace the factory parts, and give the bike a different look.
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Old 07-09-2005, 04:29 PM   #103
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Looking good. ...we're gonna have to get together and swap bikes...I'm curious about that 3.36 final drive.
I thought my 3.2 was low...your's is gonna be like a tractor.

The side stand...I added 3.5" to mine with 5/8" steel rod...can't remember if it was the hot or cold rolled ...but one of them fit inside the stock tubing like a glove.

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Old 07-09-2005, 05:39 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by sherpa
Looking good. ...we're gonna have to get together and swap bikes...I'm curious about that 3.36 final drive.
I thought my 3.2 was low...your's is gonna be like a tractor.

The side stand...I added 3.5" to mine with 5/8" steel rod...can't remember if it was the hot or cold rolled ...but one of them fit inside the stock tubing like a glove.

Hope you checked the clearance with the center stand... I did the same thing, only to find that it 'locks' up the centerstand.

Ended up swapping my modded side stand with an Adventure side stand (I put on Bitubo adv shocks on my standard GS).

I still have to take time to lengthen my center stand, or wait for an adventure center stand to show up. Then re-work the side stand... again.
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Old 07-10-2005, 03:41 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Guzzler
Hope you checked the clearance with the center stand... I did the same thing, only to find that it 'locks' up the centerstand.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..........a noob like myself draws comfort in the fact that a member of the wrenching pantheon ....makes the same humbling mistakes that I do....




When I discovered my error...I just yanked the center stand off and threw it in the corner in disgust.........it was an easy way to loose another 5 lbs off the bike anyway.
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