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Old 07-08-2011, 08:51 AM   #31
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceri JC View Post
^The above is what would seal the deal for me if you were interested in taking it on anything more challenging than fire roads. For my strength/ability/size the weight is not the limiting factor in offroading the F8. Nor is it the quality of the suspension. By a loooong way, the single greatest limiting factor I find is ground clearance. As the Triumph is lower still, I think you will have problems using it on anything remotely like "proper" offroad.

For a 100% roadbike? I'd be very interested in the Tiger.
+1, after riding and thoroughly inspecting the 800XC up close, I'd have to agree.

In my opinion the F800GS is a good 60/40 bike... as on 60% on road (pavement) and 40% off road (gravel roads, dirt roads, 2-track ATV/Jeep trails, etc - no single track). Whereas, the 800XC is a good 90/10 bike.... 90% paved roads, 10% mixed gravel/fire roads and the occasional "if I have to" 2-track ATV/Jeep trail.

Also, someone mentioned the rims on the 800XC as Excel rims. They are not.

It is also important to remember that just because a suspension component has adjustments, that does not necessarily make it any better. I have a shitty little stereo that has a lot of adjustments on it but it will never sound as good as my Tannoy studio monitors that have no adjustments.... just an analogy, but something to think about nonetheless.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:47 AM   #32
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I own an 800GS with 16k miles and I took a good test ride on the Triumph 800 XC last weekend.

The Triumph has a better engine and a better seat. The suspension seems a little better out of the box, too. I think it makes a better road bike than the F800. Also, the gearchange is a bit smoother than the BMW.

I didn't get to ride the Triumph off road, but the points that the other posters have made seem relevant. A little more vulnerable, a little more top heavy, and not as much low end torque. Also, first gear seemed slightly higher than the GS, and the GS is already too tall. None of these facts are deal breakers for the average rider.

Overall I thought the Triumph was an awesome bike and you can't go wrong with either one!
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:50 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Griz View Post
+1, after riding and thoroughly inspecting the 800XC up close, I'd have to agree.

In my opinion the F800GS is a good 60/40 bike... as on 60% on road (pavement) and 40% off road (gravel roads, dirt roads, 2-track ATV/Jeep trails, etc - no single track). Whereas, the 800XC is a good 90/10 bike.... 90% paved roads, 10% mixed gravel/fire roads and the occasional "if I have to" 2-track ATV/Jeep trail.

Also, someone mentioned the rims on the 800XC as Excel rims. They are not.

It is also important to remember that just because a suspension component has adjustments, that does not necessarily make it any better. I have a shitty little stereo that has a lot of adjustments on it but it will never sound as good as my Tannoy studio monitors that have no adjustments.... just an analogy, but something to think about nonetheless.
I don't know about the 90/10 thing, the bike is pretty similar to the BMW. Maybe for those of us who really ride hard trails on these bikes, you might notice a difference. For the average buyer, I don't think the added clearance of the F8 makes too much difference.

Also, I didn't look at my test bike, but the 800XC at the motorcycle show had excel rims front and rear. I assumed they would come that way? If they took those off, that's a real shame.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:59 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maniac28 View Post
I don't know about the 90/10 thing, the bike is pretty similar to the BMW. Maybe for those of us who really ride hard trails on these bikes, you might notice a difference. For the average buyer, I don't think the added clearance of the F8 makes too much difference.
That depends on what you mean by 'hard trails'. Again, just my opinion after riding both bikes. With the 800XC as top heavy as it is and with that lower linkage poking out and the overall lower ground clearance it's off-road worthiness is reduced in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maniac28 View Post
...... the 800XC at the motorcycle show had excel rims front and rear. I assumed they would come that way? If they took those off, that's a real shame.
Someone put those on that show bike aftermarket then.

Pretty much every photo I find there are no Excel rims:




Neine Excel.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:45 AM   #35
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I have to admit that a lack of low rpm torque used as a selling point seems odd, but not the first mag to point it out. I don't agree that too much low rpm torque is a bad thing, but understand the problem if you can't modulate the use of it. IMO that is the problem with F800gs. Very lean at low rpm and the torque comes on in a rush as the rpms rise.
Already stated my cure for it.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:12 PM   #36
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Yeah, I'd still buy the GS

In fact that's what I did.

I had a deposit on a Tiger and even had mine sitting at the dealer. Cancelled the order and purchased another GS after a couple of test rides on the Tiger. If any of you followed the Tiger thread when they were first coming out you saw my posts and my pros and cons of each. Most of the cons mentioned here weren't deal breakers for me, although they started to add up as I learned more about the bike.

What DID make the final call for me was the steering geometry, specifically the turn-in of the steering. I keep reading how good the handling is "despite" the 21" front wheel, and that's true, the bike was so much fun on twisty roads, but it didn't handle like it had a 21" and that's what I wanted. If I didn't know better I'd say the bike felt like it had a 19" or even maybe a 17". Great on asphalt, not what I want in the dirt. If your riding is more "adventure super-moto" (did I just create a new class?) this would be the optimal bike in my opinion. As much as I wanted the Triumph to be the machine for me my heart kept telling me I wanted another GS, and I can't ignore that.

Honestly, judging by the way many ride thier GSs I'd say the triumph might be better for them, and I'm on the edge of that category myself as I don't really do anything hardcore with my GS, already tried that and found I'm happier toning it down a bit . I still don't find it as black and white of a decision as many here do but I think I leaned more to the GS side. The Tiger has a lot of things going for it and I'm not surprised most owners are ecstatic about it. Had that one issue with the turn in been different I'd have bought the Tiger and probably had a ton of fun figuring it out, despite some of what I would call design flaws for what I want in an adventure bike. At times I still catch myself thinking maybe I should have, but the last time I thought that I test rode another one and it cemented my decision for the GS.
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Old 07-08-2011, 06:10 PM   #37
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I find it odd, that these BMW shortcomings are being pointed out now, 3 years after the intro. It is the same bike, that the media was all over themselves about when it was introduced. Where was the in depth reporting then?

Maybe 3 years from now we will have the downside being reported on the Triumph.
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Old 07-08-2011, 08:05 PM   #38
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sat on it at the Canada Moto Show. the tank was huge! I felt like I was going to be "riding a gas tank". very disapointed... the Bmw fells a lot better and more in control.
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:27 AM   #39
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I looked at the 800XC as a possible replacement for my 09 F8GS, but left the dealer wondering where he went wrong!!

I loved the 800XCs engine, for a road bike its brilliant, but the rest of the Triumph lost out.

In my opinion, the Triumph is cheap in build, has a lot of 'wrong' materials on it that will not stand up to constant off-road use, and here in Oz, it has to be optioned up to the same standard spec as the 800GS, which makes it virtually the same price, within $100, and the serviceing costs are higher with the 800XC, which according to the salesperson is because its got 3 cylinders??

Triumph started with a clean sheet of paper, had 3 years to develop their bike, and barely matched the BMW let alone bettered it!!

I think the 800GS is a more robust bike and proven its still the best 800cc Advbike on the market.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:24 AM   #40
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has a lot of 'wrong' materials on it that will not stand up to constant off-road use,
what materials are those?
where are they used?
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:26 PM   #41
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I'm bias and loving my 800gs

If you are truly overlanding the bike an extensive dealer network is key. If and when shit really hits the fan with any modern bike your not getting it fixed in a cardboard shack. For around home clearly this isn't a consideration. From my own experience the 800gs has been flawless but I also really maintain it. At first I thought I was going to love the Triumph but then I through my leg over one. The ergo's just don't seem right and maybe its just in my head but it seams a lot more top heavy. Lastly three cylinders has to cost more to maintain in the long run but only time will tell.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:24 PM   #42
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what materials are those?
where are they used?
The plastics are cheap and nasty, most of the fittings seem way to light/flimsy and over time will break off. They must have got the headlight and instruments off a cheap Chinese quad!!

The right side of the engine sticks out like dogs balls and is just asking to have the end ripped off the crankshaft and the engine bars from Triumph do not appear to offer anywhere near as much protection that is needed.
The 800GS engine is protected by the frame rails on both sides, the XCs engine isn't.

I dont know where the weight is in the XC, I assume its in the engine because the rest of it seems very light-weight, more like a road bike!!

It will be interesting to see if the XC can hold its resale value like the GS does?
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:07 PM   #43
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I know that you BM guys get annoyed when bad information is posted about your bikes, so I hope you'll allow me the courtesy to correct some mis-information posted on the new Tiger 800.

I haven't ridden a F800GS, but I do have a Tiger 800XC, with over 4500 miles on it now. So I won't compare the ride difference between the bikes, but post some info that I do have.

1) The Tiger 800XC DOES use EXCEL rims. No, it isn't silkscreened on the rim like on a dirt bike. The rims on an XC are black, and the words "RK Excel" are etched into the surface. It's a bit dark in the garage right now, but tomorrow I'll go out and try to get a picture of the Excel rim.

2). The Tiger isn't a copy of the F800. It was actually in concept in the year 2007 before the release of the F800. My Italian is not so good, but the dates on the drawings are pretty obvious. http://www.fedrotriple.it/tiger-800-...1-triumph.html
BMW just got to the market first, and set the standard. Triumph had a similar idea, so it's more along the lines of convergent evolution, if you will.

3) I don't know where the 20-25 pound weight difference comes from. Maybe comparing manufacturer spec sheets?? (Which are notoriously biased?) I haven't weighed my bike, but these guys did a comparison http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/8/1012...g-Comparo.aspx and they appear to have weighed each bike with a full tank of gas. The difference was less than 10 pounds between the F800 and the 800XC, and even less when you take into account the .5 gallon extra weight of the 800XC.

4) The Tiger as a street-only bike? Maybe the 800 roadie version. But the 800XC is definitely dirt worthy. I've had my bike on many gravel roads, forest roads, some sand (!) and a bit of single track. For a near 500 pound machine, it handles predictably, and controllably. I bet it works even better with a knobby-type tire. And don't tell this guy that it's a road bike! http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=704559

So, that's what I know so far. I think it's great to have a bit of competition in the market, and it just means improvements on both sides. Hopefully the tire manufacturers will notice the growing market segment, and give us more tire selection as well.
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:14 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriKTM View Post


4) The Tiger as a street-only bike? Maybe the 800 roadie version. But the 800XC is definitely dirt worthy. I've had my bike on many gravel roads, forest roads, some sand (!) and a bit of single track. For a near 500 pound machine, it handles predictably, and controllably. I bet it works even better with a knobby-type tire. And don't tell this guy that it's a road bike! http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=704559

.
Lori, all good points that should be mentioned.

As for the street only thing, most of us here wouldn't say the Tiger isn't dirt worthy for adventure riding, simply the GS feels like a big dirt bike in a lot of areas, from the geometry to the ergonomics where the Tiger leans more towards characteristics of a street bike. Many have pointed out these differences as to why they like the Tiger better. For me it wasn't night and day, just one was better for what I want in the dirt. If your idea of an adventure bike is something that handles and feels like a giant thumper with a larger motor in it the GS comes closer, that is good or bad depending on what you want. I was hoping the Tiger would have the same feel....it doesn't. Doesn't mean it can't work well for someone in the dirt. To the other end I get Strom guys tell me all the time how great thier bike is in the dirt, and obviously it works for them, but I have one and it's such a different experience that I can't fairly compare them, yet some of them claim it's a big dirt bike.

Nobodys saying you shouldn't enjoy your bike, just an honest comparison on feel. Had it been different I wouldn't be riding a GS right now, and I really, really wanted it to be different.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:41 AM   #45
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I have the 658 BMW which of course would be compared to the 19/17" Tiger 800.
With the claimed weight of 377 for the 658 and the under seat fuel tank, I think the 658 is pretty nimble for its size/weight.
With the standard location tank, up on top like most all bikes, it seems to me the Tiger 800/XC will feel more top heavy.
Not that the Tiger is top heavy really, but as compared to a bike whos fuel weight is not carried up top.
Merely pulling the bike off the kickstand could feel heavier with a full tank located on top.
Just my observation from those here who feel the Triumph is top heavy...

It will be good to see a comparo between the 658 and the more street biased Tiger 800 ...in time I suppose.
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