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Old 07-10-2011, 10:20 AM   #46
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriKTM View Post
I know that you BM guys get annoyed when bad information is posted about your bikes, so I hope you'll allow me the courtesy to correct some mis-information posted on the new Tiger 800.

I haven't ridden a F800GS, but I do have a Tiger 800XC, with over 4500 miles on it now. So I won't compare the ride difference between the bikes, but post some info that I do have.

1) The Tiger 800XC DOES use EXCEL rims. No, it isn't silkscreened on the rim like on a dirt bike. The rims on an XC are black, and the words "RK Excel" are etched into the surface. It's a bit dark in the garage right now, but tomorrow I'll go out and try to get a picture of the Excel rim.
Yeah, a pic or two would be nice. I've ridden and looked closely at a 800XC and did not see RK Excel etched anywhere on the rims. Must be somewhat hard to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriKTM View Post
2). The Tiger isn't a copy of the F800. It was actually in concept in the year 2007 before the release of the F800. My Italian is not so good, but the dates on the drawings are pretty obvious. http://www.fedrotriple.it/tiger-800-...1-triumph.html
BMW just got to the market first, and set the standard. Triumph had a similar idea, so it's more along the lines of convergent evolution, if you will.
Well it sure looks like a copy!.... especially since BMW's F800GS had been on the market for close to 3 years before Triumph brought their 800XC to the market. The 800XC was in concept in 2007, yes. But you're forgetting that the F800GS came to the market in 2008 and was in concept as far back as 2004. BMW has never been one to release their concept sketches. But I can tell you that these computer drawings from BMW were created long before 2007! Do you think it's possible that someone at Triumph got a glimpse of BMW's designs prior to those Triumph 800XC sketches in 2007?











Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriKTM View Post
3) I don't know where the 20-25 pound weight difference comes from. Maybe comparing manufacturer spec sheets?? (Which are notoriously biased?) I haven't weighed my bike, but these guys did a comparison http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/8/1012...g-Comparo.aspx and they appear to have weighed each bike with a full tank of gas. The difference was less than 10 pounds between the F800 and the 800XC, and even less when you take into account the .5 gallon extra weight of the 800XC.
BMW claims a 455 lb wet weight for the F800GS: fully fueled, battery installed, ready to ride.

Triumph claims a 473 wet weight for the 800XC: fully fueled, battery installed, ready to ride.

473-455=18 lbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriKTM View Post
4) The Tiger as a street-only bike? Maybe the 800 roadie version. But the 800XC is definitely dirt worthy. I've had my bike on many gravel roads, forest roads, some sand (!) and a bit of single track. For a near 500 pound machine, it handles predictably, and controllably. I bet it works even better with a knobby-type tire. And don't tell this guy that it's a road bike! http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=704559
No one ever said the 800XC is a street-only bike. I just personally feel that the 800XC is more street and less dirt than the F800GS.
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Old 07-10-2011, 04:53 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz View Post
Yeah, a pic or two would be nice. I've ridden and looked closely at a 800XC and did not see RK Excel etched anywhere on the rims. Must be somewhat hard to see.
The dust on the rim actually makes the text show up better. On a clean, brand new bike it can be hard to see.

Front Rim:




Rear Rim:

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Old 07-10-2011, 07:22 PM   #48
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I am in the market for one of these bikes; i like both brands and am coming in with a open mind. Fortunately, one of our local shops, Pacific, sells both brands as well as Yamaha. I went for a back-to-back test ride ride, going BMW, Triumph then BMW again. my wife did some pillion too... My preference was suprisingly clear.
For engine/gear box, I felt they were tied; even though they are profoundly different. Depends what you are looking for - the Triumph is the hotrod but i like the torque characteristics of the Bimmer. I am coming from a FJR and it kicks the crap outta either; my top priority is not speed.
Suprisingly, for everything else it was no contest ... All BMW! it felt more nimble and just ... Better. Add the aftermarket advantage for BMW and, for me, it has been decided.
Two footnotes ... No comment re seats as I would chuck both ... And no I am not a BMW owner!
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:57 AM   #49
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My 2 cents

Haven't ridden the Triumph but for the riding I do I can't fathom having even less ground clearance than I have now. My side stand and center stand are almost 100% paint free and one skidplate has already given its life. An extra inch in this area is huge (insert off color comment here).....
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Old 07-11-2011, 04:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoriley View Post
Haven't ridden the Triumph but for the riding I do I can't fathom having even less ground clearance than I have now. My side stand and center stand are almost 100% paint free and one skidplate has already given its life. An extra inch in this area is huge (insert off color comment here).....
This.
I have the F800 and have it primarily set up for dirt (knobbies, woody's wheels, hyperpro, shock bolt brace, etc). When I say dirt I do not mean hard singletrack as this bike is a pig as it is. I cannot imagine wanting more weight to throw around. I also am one of the minority who thinks the F800 is not tall enough, so less clearence would definitely be a deal breaker for me. I use the bike for mixed dirt and paved rides, both day long and especially multiday. In this role as a long distance moderate dirt mule the F800 works well. But every time I get on my WR250R I am reminded of its limitations. Heavier and lower = bad.
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:58 PM   #51
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I chose the F800GS because it felt to me to be a better off road bike and I rather have better fuel economy over power. I don't want more power - The 800 already has enough to get me in trouble!
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Old 07-13-2011, 06:25 PM   #52
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriKTM View Post
The dust on the rim actually makes the text show up better. On a clean, brand new bike it can be hard to see.

Front Rim:




Rear Rim:

Good to know! Thanks!
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:29 AM   #53
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I'd still go with the GS for a couple of reasons that, between the two being almost equal, are just on this side of symantec.

The GS is between 15 and 40 lbs lighter than the XC stock depending on which reviewer did the weighing.

The GS has better mid range torque values than the XC (mid range is where I normally ride)

The GS averages approximately 10 MPG better fuel economy than the XC....that's 22% better gas mileage.

The GS has far superior aftermarket offerings and stock it offers more flexibility with standard accessories at base prices.

The GS seat height is higher than the XC. I consider the GS seat to be too low so that's a plus for the GS in my book.

The GS has more suspension travel and ground clearance than the XC. I don't think the GS has enough suspension travel or ground clearance, so...the XC definitely doesn't have enough suspension travel or ground clearance.

The GS is geared lower than the XC. And since I already feel that first in the GS is too high, first in the XC is way too high.

The GS is thinner than the XC and since the GS is too wide for ease on the trails as it is, the XC is way too wide.

Owning a GS and having test ridden an XC I'd say that the one place the XC has the GS is in the quality of the suspension system and wheels that come stock, and that actually means a lot. But it doesn't mean enough to sway my decision.

What it really comes down to for me in the final decision is feel. The XC feels more like a street bike and the GS feels like a more able adventure bike when riding it.

I would hands down still go with the GS, no comparison.
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:08 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashback View Post
I'd still go with the GS for a couple of reasons that, between the two being almost equal, are just on this side of symantec.

The GS is between 15 and 40 lbs lighter than the XC stock depending on which reviewer did the weighing.

The GS has better mid range torque values than the XC (mid range is where I normally ride)

The GS averages approximately 10 MPG better fuel economy than the XC....that's 22% better gas mileage.

The GS has far superior aftermarket offerings and stock it offers more flexibility with standard accessories at base prices.

The GS seat height is higher than the XC. I consider the GS seat to be too low so that's a plus for the GS in my book.

The GS has more suspension travel and ground clearance than the XC. I don't think the GS has enough suspension travel or ground clearance, so...the XC definitely doesn't have enough suspension travel or ground clearance.

The GS is geared lower than the XC. And since I already feel that first in the GS is too high, first in the XC is way too high.

The GS is thinner than the XC and since the GS is too wide for ease on the trails as it is, the XC is way too wide.

Owning a GS and having test ridden an XC I'd say that the one place the XC has the GS is in the quality of the suspension system and wheels that come stock, and that actually means a lot. But it doesn't mean enough to sway my decision.

What it really comes down to for me in the final decision is feel. The XC feels more like a street bike and the GS feels like a more able adventure bike when riding it.

I would hands down still go with the GS, no comparison.
Well said!

I've ridden the Tiger XC, and its a nice bike, but I wouldn't trade my farkeled 800GS on it!
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:34 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ducksbane View Post
Well said!

I've ridden the Tiger XC, and its a nice bike, but I wouldn't trade my farkeled 800GS on it!
I said the exact same thing in another thread a couple of months back and got death threats!!

If you like the Triumph, its your money, buy it if you like, but for my money, the BMW would still get the nod.

And with the possibility of a 900cc TE/ADV Husky in the wind, they both may be on borrowed time!!
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:57 AM   #56
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Of course I would buy the same F800GS again ......

Hello,

I'm not really new here, but I'm with my F800GS [3 Aug 2010], it's a 30 Year Jub. version, with BOS exhaust, NGK iridium plugs and UNI foam airfilter fitted, etc.

Must say that I can't compare with the Triumph Tiger 800XC, because I haven't driven one. BUT the 800XC looks very good.

But .... I'm surely not going to change my F800GS, besides of the lack of troubles I have [NOT] with this lovely machine, it's MILEAGE is unbeatable !!! ;-).

On daily home/work traffic [with some in-town traffic], I easily make 1:25 km [even 1:26-27], which is at least a mileage of 58.79 [US] or almost 71 [UK].
I think the 800XC is doing about 1:18 km [mileage 50-55 UK].

Of course there are some problems with the F800GS, I drove a F800ST for 4 years with lots of [beginners] problems.
But as I allready wrote, now with 16K [miles] on the GS with no problems at all, one can say the F800GS is a good bike.

I red in the UK Triump 800XC forum, there are some 800XC's having stalling problems, this is not the case anymore with the F800GS.

So, if I look to the fuel consumption, I think the F800GS will be cheaper at the end than the 800XC ;-).
If I should drive 20K a year [it's even more], it would be a difference of at least 300 ltr - The Netherlands is quite expensive for fuel, today 1,63 euro/lt. So > 300 ltr would be almost 500 euro a year.

F800GS, I can't hardly think about something to improve the bike.
Some complain about the seat comfort problem, the saddle of my racingbicycle, that's a real comfort problem

Rob
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:57 AM   #57
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I'd buy MY F-8GS again in a heartbeat. 2.5 years old - 46,000+ and NO real problems (the rear wheel bearings were my only issue after 30,000 miles). She's a real sweetheart of a bike - Very well balanced - I have no complaints.

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Old 07-19-2011, 05:43 AM   #58
Flashback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panterrob View Post
Hello,

F800GS, I can't hardly think about something to improve the bike.
Some complain about the seat comfort problem, the saddle of my racingbicycle, that's a real comfort problem

Rob
...800 GS needs better shocks, like they put on a KTM...it rides a little rough at speed on this kind of terrain. Tends to bottom out when you jump the woop de doos.







Couldn't resist including pics of the 800 GS on the off road vehicle trails.

Of course, the 800 GS is about the only big bore bike (other than a KTM) that I'd actually attempt to jump woop de doos like this on. Super happy with my 800 GS. Just wish the BMW engineers had thought to put more "industrial strength" parts into the suspension and wheel system. It's a really stable bike when it goes airborne but tends to land hard because of its weight. The rider position is just about in the sweet spot for jumping control (weight could go back a bit). And it wheelies over logs and other obstacles easy enough when muscle is thrown at it. Again having the rider position back a little further would help with that.

It is still a tad too heavy though. Can lose like 8 lbs just by replacing the stock exhaust with aftermarket. It is definitely built with the street in mind but it can be "adjusted" to think like a dirt machine. It also needs a lower first (for technical trail and hill climb work) and a higher 6'th gear (for riding triple digit speeds when touring with the 1200 GS folks).

But hey, I've put about 5,000 miles on my 800 GS in the last 3 weeks...to northern Maine riding more than 90 mph in 90+ degree temps on the super slab, leisurely touring of the Great Lakes, mountain curvees coming down the Appalachians, on the trail in the off road vehicle park (pics above), and in the sandy off road wasteland highways of the SE U.S. Sandhills. Only maintenance I had to do was change the oil and keep the chain lubed. Can't think of any other bike that'll do all that practically maintenance free.

Yes I really love my 800 GS. It keeps me doing this...
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:00 AM   #59
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those are some serious whoops! and nice rock ledge. is that the egg i see?

as far as weight goes; in addition to the stock can, you can also swap out the battery for one of those new fangled shorai batteries which will reduce the weight a tad in the front.

definitely agree on the suspenders; i did a foolish near vertical jump a few weeks ago and besides my total lack of ability the bike landed like a ton of bricks and everything hit the stops. luckily bike and rider survived.

oh and in keeping with the theme of this thread, no i haven't ridden the xc800. don't want too. the f800gs was my first 'dirt' bike. i wouldn't trade it for another bike. i will say that to use it as i want to use it will require additional capex to get it setup. nature of the beast; everything needs adjustments to make it 'right' for you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashback View Post
...800 GS needs better shocks, like they put on a KTM...it rides a little rough at speed on this kind of terrain. Tends to bottom out when you jump the woop de doos.







Couldn't resist including pics of the 800 GS on the off road vehicle trails.

Of course, the 800 GS is about the only big bore bike (other than a KTM) that I'd actually attempt to jump woop de doos like this on. Super happy with my 800 GS. Just wish the BMW engineers had thought to put more "industrial strength" parts into the suspension and wheel system. It's a really stable bike when it goes airborne but tends to land hard because of its weight. The rider position is just about in the sweet spot for jumping control (weight could go back a bit). And it wheelies over logs and other obstacles easy enough when muscle is thrown at it. Again having the rider position back a little further would help with that.

It is still a tad too heavy though. Can lose like 8 lbs just by replacing the stock exhaust with aftermarket. It is definitely built with the street in mind but it can be "adjusted" to think like a dirt machine. It also needs a lower first (for technical trail and hill climb work) and a higher 6'th gear (for riding triple digit speeds when touring with the 1200 GS folks).

But hey, I've put about 5,000 miles on my 800 GS in the last 3 weeks...to northern Maine riding more than 90 mph in 90+ degree temps on the super slab, leisurely touring of the Great Lakes, mountain curvees coming down the Appalachians, on the trail in the off road vehicle park (pics above), and in the sandy off road wasteland highways of the SE U.S. Sandhills. Only maintenance I had to do was change the oil and keep the chain lubed. Can't think of any other bike that'll do all that practically maintenance free.

Yes I really love my 800 GS. It keeps me doing this...
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:23 AM   #60
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Real enduro man ;-)

'Flashback' and 'loph917',

You're real enduro man ;-). I'm not and I didn't mention it, but I've changed my suspension with Hyperpro [rear and front].

Not that I was having problems whatsoever, but I had good experience with the Hyperpro fitted on my F800ST. So I had a good deal for installing Hyperpro in front [progressive springs] and rear the complete damping set with spring for 695,- euro [all included]. I did this when driven 20K km with the bike.
The funny thing was, that when I first drove away, I had the [pleasant] feeling I was 'SITTING IN THE BIKE'

So You are both right I think, when You mention the suspension, especially for offroad activities, it could be improved.
It was one of the few criticisms in the comparison test with the 800XC.

Must say that the bike doesn't plunge that much anymore ...

Rob
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