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Old 07-30-2011, 01:38 AM   #16
vagueout
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I don't have a 1200 - yet, would plan to in the future but one glaring thing holds me back, that is that the 1200 FD is essentially NON rebuildable, bmw have no procedure for it, it's a matter of a new unit, ok if under warranty, what about for the rest of the bike's life? I've been saying for years that if the bike went back to a commonsense double sided swingarm we would not be having this conversation, single sided swingarm was a blatant case of style over substance imo.
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:47 AM   #17
Lord Vader
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Sorry to hear about that
I had on my 06 GSA all together 5 !!! final drives.Every 13k miles a new one.BMW paid for the first 4 and by #5 they said i was overloading the bike and refused to pay.
Got a 09 now which is on 24k miles now and all is well,so far
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:46 AM   #18
AfricaWim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vagueout View Post
..... I've been saying for years that if the bike went back to a commonsense double sided swingarm we would not be having this conversation, ....
Some things will remain mysteries...
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:00 AM   #19
Rockmuncher
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Eh? Ostrich

Come on you guys. I just got my head sufficiently buried in the sand, and now you're making me paranoid again. Lets hear from the 100,000 plus mile fd guys now.
BTW, 04 Adv with 27000 miles, so far so good.
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:00 AM   #20
billdonna
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Say.....this wouldn't happen to be you lads, is it? If so I think I can figure out what happened.

Seriously though, tough luck there brother. Let us know what happened when you find out.
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:02 AM   #21
Emoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Englishmatt View Post
I serviced the bikes before we left, and have serviced them since new (mine and my brothers bike, not the RT).

I only use the specified AGL5 75-90 Oil and I only use 180ml of Oil. The FD oil is replaced every 6K....because I get bored and it's so easy to change so why not. In addition I change it frequently because I am so damn paranoid about a.) looking at the oil to detect early bearing failure (small metal flakes) and b.) I've been wrenching on my own stuff for years and don't trust any dealer to do the job as thorougly as I do.

With the 6 o'clock drain plug, there is no reason to ignore the FD oil.

I used to be a Motorcycle Messenger in London, have done hundreds of thousands of miles on Shafty bikes (CX500 and VT500) so am a plenty a capable mechanic. I've never had an issue with the honda shafts...

I agree on the early thoughts though....screams of not enough oil, or too much oil with too much pressure...but I can assure you it's not the case with these bikes.

I'll update the post as I know more from the dealer and BMW Motorrad.

Matt.
Ok, fair enough. Let's stipulate that it was not a service-related problem.

What about some kind of event that both bikes experienced together? Not sure what that might be. Water crossing early in the trip? Don't these drives have a vent that might let water in? I'm just guessing here.

Oddly enough, on a trip some years ago when I was still touring on a GSXR1100, both I and one of the other guys on the trip suffered failed ignition switches. It was bizarre.
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:01 AM   #22
CheckerdD
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Well that one certainly looks better. Dave

Not really, but you've pictured the 660 not the 1200 that is coming out now. Here's another model for comparison:

[/QUOTE]
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:30 AM   #23
Schlug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Englishmatt View Post
In our small group of GSA and RT riders (7 riders)....five (5) bikes (4 GS/A's and 1 RT) have had FD issues...
.
first stop posting crap like this.

final drive 'issues'. It's a goddamn wheel bearing, they wear out. You wouldn't say your KTM had wheel bearing 'issues' because you replaced worn wheel bearings after a significant number of miles, would you? Seals need replaced, bearings wear. Don't cloud the waters with that hogshyte when a failure means a failure. Too many times we've heard of FD 'failures' which consisted of rear wheel play or a leaky seal.

As for you lot, both your bikes had far too few miles to expect a failure, to be sure.

tell us more about your failures? How did you know and what did they look like once taken apart?
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:33 AM   #24
Unca Fud
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My question is why did two (out of the seven) of your bike group not fail? I don't know of any around here FDs that have not had a failure.

Remember it is only 1 in 25 that fails (the 4 percent rule) - or was it one in 25 that doesn't?
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Old 07-30-2011, 12:58 PM   #25
vintagerider
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I am assuming that by "FD failure" we are speaking of FD wheel bearing failure. It helps if the FD failure is better described. I agree with Bobby that too many "FD failure posts" are lacking sufficient background to be meaningful. Drives which have been contaminated with water or used in very dusty conditions w/o the benefit of extra oil changes are rider failure, not FD failure. If your FD bearing failed at >50k , then that is maintenance, not failure or poor design.

Also, not all trail dust is the same. In certain areas the geology is such that the dust is extremely abrasive. Fin grit enters FD though the vent. Operation on such trails might call for changing out the FD oil as soon as you leave the trail. Simple, easy preventive maintenance following severe duty use. Degradation of the balls and race can be caught early before the cage disintegrates and damages the drive.

Anecdotal: In 11xx I have seen very early wheel bearing and gear box bearing failure shortly after Mobile 1 75w90 syn GL 5 was installed. (I have complete confidence in Mo 1 engine oils). Others have reported similar experience with this product. Other anecdotal: Similar ball bearing failure does not seem to occur where other brands of full syn GL5 were used. OP, can you tell us what brand of gear oil oil was installed just prior to departure?

Yes, improper assembly (shimming) at the factory was a known issue with certain 11xx FD's. So lets treat that separately.

I now believe, but have no scientific data, that certain syn GL 5 brands may be the cause of at least some of these FD big ball bearing failures as well as M97 , M94 gear box bearing failures.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
first stop posting crap like this.

final drive 'issues'. It's a goddamn wheel bearing, they wear out. You wouldn't say your KTM had wheel bearing 'issues' because you replaced worn wheel bearings after a significant number of miles, would you? Seals need replaced, bearings wear. Don't cloud the waters with that hogshyte when a failure means a failure. Too many times we've heard of FD 'failures' which consisted of rear wheel play or a leaky seal.

As for you lot, both your bikes had far too few miles to expect a failure, to be sure.

tell us more about your failures? How did you know and what did they look like once taken apart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagueout View Post
I don't have a 1200 - yet, would plan to in the future but one glaring thing holds me back, that is that the 1200 FD is essentially NON rebuildable, bmw have no procedure for it, it's a matter of a new unit, ok if under warranty, what about for the rest of the bike's life? I've been saying for years that if the bike went back to a commonsense double sided swingarm we would not be having this conversation, single sided swingarm was a blatant case of style over substance imo.
If this is true, that 1200 FD is "not rebuild able" (serviceable) then I also could not justify 1200 purchase because I expect my mc to last decades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Vader View Post
Sorry to hear about that
I had on my 06 GSA all together 5 !!! final drives.Every 13k miles a new one.BMW paid for the first 4 and by #5 they said i was overloading the bike and refused to pay.
Got a 09 now which is on 24k miles now and all is well,so far
What oil was used? How much load do you carry? Stream crossings? Very dusty conditions?
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:57 PM   #26
Meeni
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Pictures of failed FD very often show a red goop vomited from the failed seals - what I assumed to be Redline ShockProof, but it now came to my knowledge that other synth brands are blood red.
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:21 PM   #27
TruSound
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Is Size Everything ?

I had an upclose look at this new 1200 Tenere the other night...wish I would have taken a pic of the mini final drive...we'll see if size matters, it was quite a bit smaller than a GS FD...
The pic doesn't really do it justice...pretty nice bike, I'll be keeping my GS...at least till the FD explodes...JUST KIDDING PEOPLE.
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:35 PM   #28
rescueMAN
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comes to something when the FD has to have the oil changed just as frequently as the engine oil!!!
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:50 PM   #29
Schlug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruSound View Post
I had an upclose look at this new 1200 Tenere the other night...wish I would have taken a pic of the mini final drive...we'll see if size matters, it was quite a bit smaller than a GS FD...
The pic doesn't really do it justice...pretty nice bike, I'll be keeping my GS...at least till the FD explodes...JUST KIDDING PEOPLE.
For the additional weight of that hog you could carry a spare final drive for your GS. Just sayin'
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Old 07-30-2011, 05:08 PM   #30
bone13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OoPEZoO View Post
Tenere's started showing up at dealerships this week
Had our first one show up at the dealership I work at this week. sadly it never left the delivery truck. shippers stacked something on top of it which came through the top of the crate smashing the gas tank and other parts. As the gastank is not available yet with no ETA on delivery to yamaha's warehouses, we refused delivery and had it sent back.
This years Tenere's had to be special ordered to get one... ie not available to the dealerships for floorplan. If a dealer wanted one for the showroom floor they had to buy it outright from Yamaha.
Right now I am feeling sorry for the guy who this one was allocated for. He made a $500 deposit on it back in December and now has to wait for Yamaha to get us another one...

And Damnit, I was hoping to talk the techs into letting me do it's predelivery road test
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