F800GS vs. KTM 990 Adventure

[itsatdm]

Originally Posted by marcoma

When I went to the dealer to test a KTM 990, I got back and said it just felt too much of a dedicated offroad machine (albeit a heavy one!). He then offered me a test ride on a brand new F800GS. I bought the BMW on the spot.

Theres not a day goes by where I don't regret buying the BMW ....BUT I imagine I'd be even more dissatisfied with the KTM.

The Beemer is uncomfortable with the stock seat, has a ridiculously tall first gear so hard core offroading is out of the question in stock form which is fine because the suspension is shite for that anyways, the motor rattles more than my dead grannys teeth and it's stupidly overpriced IMHO. No, where the Beemer pics up points is it's ability in town over the KTM and it's astounding fuel mileage.

I have 7 bikes - I dislike the Beemer because it cost the most and delivered the least. I'm sure there's people here who swear by 'em but honestly there's no comparison to what you get with a Japanese machine - in quality, performance and value for money.

When I bought it, I made my bed and now I'll lie on it....... c'est la vie!

The closest I got to a KTM ride was to throw a leg over and hoist it up. It felt heavy and after looking at the HP and torque numbers, I decided for an old man on his first big ADV type bike, I should probably pass.

Some of my first impressions of the BMW were similar to yours and I was unhappy enough to bitch about here.

My first trip to Saline/Death valley on the stock bike, put the fear of Dog in me, a 65mph tankslapper will do that. Suspension that jarred my teeth, abrupt throttle that garnered me a bent rim. First was too abrupt and 2nd would not pull the grades.

I have about $1,700 in suspension fixes, Accelerator module, G2 tube, exhaust and a shock brace for peace of mind. It is a completely different bike.

It is still cheaper than a KTM. The engine in mine makes no odd noises. With added torque and ability to modulate the throttle, coupled with decent suspension, has made me forget the tall first gear.

Stock to stock there is no comparison, if you are talking about suspension and power.

A few mods and it is tough enough for me.

[RadoR6]

I had the same problem as you back in March 2010. It took me a few months to do my "homework" and finally decide to put the deposit down on a GS 800. Yes, KTM was the better bike but not £3000 better (which was the price difference between the two), KTM has the better suspension but the GS was easily improved by fitting Hyperpro progressive springs. Furthermore, the GS is much easier to mantain with longer service intervals. Also, the fuel consumption was another thing that spoke for the GS. Now, after almost 1 1/2 years, two trips to the continent and with 11000 miles on the clock, I can't say one single word against the GS8.The only problems I had were a leaking rocker gasket and water pump which were replaced quickly and efficiently (both cases within three days from reporting) by my local dealer.

[marcoma]

1) OK - best farkle - hands down must-have mod for me was a GPR steering damper. OMG - completely different bike after that. It was a total pig before and I imagine your tank slapper story is not uncommon.

2) Answer to the KTM v BMW muse..... do like I did and buy an orange BMW


Check out the pig with a steering damper in action at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEJix3foLuQ

[loph917]

hey mate, yer on the wrong side of the road!!

Originally Posted by marcoma

1) OK - best farkle - hands down must-have mod for me was a GPR steering damper. OMG - completely different bike after that. It was a total pig before and I imagine your tank slapper story is not uncommon.

2) Answer to the KTM v BMW muse..... do like I did and buy an orange BMW


Check out the pig with a steering damper in action at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEJix3foLuQ

[marcoma]

I know, right?

You can laugh but after spending the last 11 years in the US, I have had a couple of awkward moments in Oz where I attempted to go down the wrong side of a dual carriageway I still find it funny (until I get hit by a semi).......

[Ronin ADV]

Start by throwing some better tires on that bike. Probably better look into crash bars and a better skid plate too if you want it to keep its good looks.

[Umarth]

Originally Posted by deguoren

And it does 200 km/h with luggage with ease .

correction: 185km/h at red line with side paniers no top case.
and at high speeds forks are terrible, way way to soft for confident handling.

[xcflyn]

Originally Posted by tmex

You can't post anything in the orange crush forum without getting into a flaming argument. I have four (more than most in OC) KTM's so I am not averse to the brand. But good grief, there is absolutely no objectivity when it comes to 990 talk. That leads me to believe that no one with a 990 wants to consider that they threw $10K+ in the toilet.

So theory is that if no one complains - it must be a waste of money. That makes sense to me .
Think I covered it in my last sentence or two. But throw stones if you must.

[tmex]

Originally Posted by xcflyn

So theory is that if no one complains - it must be a waste of money. That makes sense to me .
Think I covered it in my last sentence or two. But throw stones if you must.

Oh please. How long are the sections on TuneBoy and TuneECU. Got tunes???? If the FI was fixable by remapping don't you think the dealers would be supplied with maps by KTM to make their customers happy? Dealers simply cannot fix the percentage of bikes (which is far from insignificant) that run poorly. I am very close (best riding bro and one heck of a good mechanic) to a guy who tried all that stuff and finally converted to carbs. The OC crowd is literally in denial relative to FI issues.

I'll freely admit the F8 has issues. OC admits to nothing, and stomps anyone who says otherwise.

[HighFive]

Golly.....I forgot possibly the most important comparison of all: The Pickup Test

My 950 was a beast to pickup....as in dead buffalo.

My F800 is quite easy to stand up....not that I actually ever fall down. I said "Test" didn't I ?

Give that a try when you get your hands on each of these machines. Lay em over....then pick em up.

The difference was significant for me. But maybe I'm just a putz....I donno.

HF

p.s. I'll happily receive either one as a free gift.

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by HighFive

Golly.....I forgot possibly the most important comparison of all: The Pickup Test

My 950 was a beast to pickup....as in dead buffalo.

My F800 is quite easy to stand up....not that I actually ever fall down. I said "Test" didn't I ?

Give that a try when you get your hands on each of these machines. Lay em over....then pick em up.

The difference was significant for me. But maybe I'm just a putz....I donno.

HF

p.s. I'll happily receive either one as a free gift.

Actually, that is a good point. My KTM is so tall, and lays so flat, it can be very difficult to pick up. I would have guessed the BMW would also be tough, but it is lower in height and CG.

[geometrician]

Originally Posted by tmex

On some the fuel injection is in the "workable" category and on others it is a nightmare - jerky transition from idle to midrange, stalling, dying as you stop,... The bad ones seem to resist all attempts to fix either at home or at the dealer.

If the FI was fixable by remapping don't you think the dealers would be supplied with maps by KTM to make their customers happy? The OC crowd is literally in denial relative to FI issues.

I'll freely admit the F8 has issues. OC admits to nothing, and stomps anyone who says otherwise.

Hmm... No, KTM & dealers won't be re-mapping anyone's bikes... there are EPA issues (in the US) which trumps any of that nonsense. It is a federal offense to modify any of the intake or exhaust systems, and while we & the aftermarket that supply us ignore that every day, importers & dealerships can't. That said plenty of guys never touch their EFI & are quite happy with their mounts

The 990 FI mapping has been dealt with for over 5 years; now by buying a single cable and using the free software & maps you can set your bike up to run however you want, with lots of maps to match your mods & needs.

No "literal" denial at OC, we discuss & fix what we need to and ride... you don't have the corner on "freely admitting" nor do we stomp or flame Inmates who ask questions .

3 near-flaming posts in this thread against 990s seems you are doing the stomping

jeez, guys, let's ride

[tmex]

Originally Posted by geometrician

Hmm... No, KTM & dealers won't be re-mapping anyone's bikes... there are EPA issues (in the US) which trumps any of that nonsense. It is a federal offense to modify any of the intake or exhaust systems, and while we & the aftermarket that supply us ignore that every day, importers & dealerships can't. That said plenty of guys never touch their EFI & are quite happy with their mounts

The 990 FI mapping has been dealt with for over 5 years; now by buying a single cable and using the free software & maps you can set your bike up to run however you want, with lots of maps to match your mods & needs.

No "literal" denial at OC, we discuss & fix what we need to and ride... you don't have the corner on "freely admitting" nor do we stomp or flame Inmates who ask questions .

3 near-flaming posts in this thread against 990s seems you are doing the stomping

jeez, guys, let's ride

No flaming intended. Just responding to OP. You are correct, many 990's seem to run just fine. Others defy any remedy to cure the FI (or apparent FI) issues. My best friend worked on his with all the maps and diagnostics available on this site at the time to no avail as well as changing out all the sensors etc. He even swapped ECU's with owners of bikes that ran just fine, and it made no difference. He took the bike to Scuderia West (well-known dealer in SF) and told them he did not want the bike back until it was running "acceptably". While Scuderia readily acknowledged that the bike was running very poorly, they were unable to correct it all. KTM simply does not provide dealers with diagnostic tools with the requisite level of detail. Scuderia finally gave it back to him in the same state it arrived, and he converted to carbs. The bike runs great now. Of the 6 990's I have sampled, 3 were great, 2 were horrible, and one was marginal with respect to the apparent FI performance. I honestly do not know what the issue is. Since some bikes run so well, I am inclined to believe it is the accumulation of tolerances somewhere in the system, and may not have anything to do with the FI at all.

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by geometrician

Hmm... No, KTM & dealers won't be re-mapping anyone's bikes... there are EPA issues (in the US) which trumps any of that nonsense. It is a federal offense to modify any of the intake or exhaust systems, and while we & the aftermarket that supply us ignore that every day, importers & dealerships can't. That said plenty of guys never touch their EFI & are quite happy with their mounts

The 990 FI mapping has been dealt with for over 5 years; now by buying a single cable and using the free software & maps you can set your bike up to run however you want, with lots of maps to match your mods & needs.

No "literal" denial at OC, we discuss & fix what we need to and ride... you don't have the corner on "freely admitting" nor do we stomp or flame Inmates who ask questions .

3 near-flaming posts in this thread against 990s seems you are doing the stomping

jeez, guys, let's ride

A Federal Offense?

EFI motorcycles are re-mapped by dealers all the time. That's why they have their Dynojet Dynomometers...

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by tmex

No flaming intended. Just responding to OP. You are correct, many 990's seem to run just fine. Others defy any remedy to cure the FI (or apparent FI) issues. My best friend worked on his with all the maps and diagnostics available on this site at the time to no avail as well as changing out all the sensors etc. He even swapped ECU's with owners of bikes that ran just fine, and it made no difference. He took the bike to Scuderia West (well-known dealer in SF) and told them he did not want the bike back until it was running "acceptably". While Scuderia readily acknowledged that the bike was running very poorly, they were unable to correct it all. KTM simply does not provide dealers with diagnostic tools with the requisite level of detail. Scuderia finally gave it back to him in the same state it arrived, and he converted to carbs. The bike runs great now. Of the 6 990's I have sampled, 3 were great, 2 were horrible, and one was marginal with respect to the apparent FI performance. I honestly do not know what the issue is. Since some bikes run so well, I am inclined to believe it is the accumulation of tolerances somewhere in the system, and may not have anything to do with the FI at all.

Nah - KTM dealers anymore have the tools and training to tune LC8's. Seriously, the 2010 LC8's are sweet running motors. Like I said, I rode a SM-T for 100 miles. I was so nice I couldn't believe it was made by the same company as my 950.

I read about the throttle snatch of the early 990's, but the 2010 I rode was probably the nicest running twin I've ever ridden. Very friendly power delivery and no vibes at all. Very quiet with no rattling from its whirly bits.

How about that parallel twin? My son say's he wouldn't own a para twin, but I have to think that BMW got theirs right. Mid 80 HP seems a nice benchmark for long distance riding. Is it smooth? Where does the torque come on. 3000rpm like a Ducati or 4000rpm like an LC8?

Thanks again for your opinions.