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Old 09-16-2011, 06:58 AM   #76
crofrog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFive View Post
No doubt the 950 is more exponential motor with better offroad toughness (out of the crate). I loved twisting its throttle, but because of that, the back end was more prone to get away from me in the dirt. The F800 motor seems very linear in power deliver. I can just hammer it hard and it goes forward with excellent traction.
So does a 150R. I let my right hand control my wheel spin.





and for the dense lawyers among this bmw crowd. Obviously all my post are said tongue in cheek. While you guys are putting your high viz road crafter I'm going to go do some coke off a hookers titty. Let me know when you're ready to ride.

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Old 09-16-2011, 07:28 AM   #77
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So does a 150R. I let my right hand control my wheel spin.





and for the dense lawyers among this bmw crowd. Obviously all my post are said tongue in cheek. While you guys are putting your high viz road crafter I'm going to go do some coke off a hookers titty. Let me know when you're ready to ride.

Well...now you've just gone too far crofrog, and made a fool of yourself.

Do your homework first. I doubt that you have any better throttle control than I do, unless you also have spent the past 25 years in Observed Trials competition at the National Championship level.

On this particular issue, I do know my subject. And remember, this is a "comparative" thread between two specific bikes, not just some obscure general discussion. Comparatively, the 950/990 is definitely more difficult to control the rear wheel on dirt than the F800. That is one of the reasons that makes the F800 surprisingly nice in the dirt. Most riders do not have such superior throttle hand control as you claim to have. But, this does not mean the 950 is bad out there.

So, you lose this point on the basis of such a ridiculous comparison. It would appear that you probably have not ridden an F800 either. Or, at least not more than around the block.

HF
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Old 09-16-2011, 08:13 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by HighFive View Post
Well...now you've just gone too far crofrog, and made a fool of yourself.

Do your homework first. I doubt that you have any better throttle control than I do, unless you also have spent the past 25 years in Observed Trials competition at the National Championship level.

On this particular issue, I do know my subject. And remember, this is a "comparative" thread between two specific bikes, not just some obscure general discussion. Comparatively, the 950/990 is definitely more difficult to control the rear wheel on dirt than the F800. That is one of the reasons that makes the F800 surprisingly nice in the dirt. Most riders do not have such superior throttle hand control as you claim to have. But, this does not mean the 950 is bad out there.

So, you lose this point on the basis of such a ridiculous comparison. It would appear that you probably have not ridden an F800 either. Or, at least not more than around the block.

HF
Don't mind him. He's inexperienced and doesn't know what he speaks. His reference to 'racing' and 'old farts' told us that much.
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:10 AM   #79
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And that right there is the crux of the issue isn't it. BMW compromises shit to hit a price point. KTM doesn't.
It is called business. See who sells the most bikes. The platform is good. the 10% who want to want to try their hand at single track on it, can add the parts that make it possible. The fact that they could have bought a KTM with what they invested, does not make it a bad business plan.

Any idea why KTM sold 39% of their stock to Bajai, a scooter firm from India?
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:24 AM   #80
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Well...now you've just gone too far crofrog, and made a fool of yourself.

So, you lose this point on the basis of such a ridiculous comparison. It would appear that you probably have not ridden an F800 either. Or, at least not more than around the block.
Time to put on my serious face.

I wasn't really trying to win the point. So lighten up :). In the same post I compared a F800 to a 150R I talked about doing coke of a hookers tit, that's what those in law enforcement would call a clue.

I personally think they're both good bikes, just at different ends of the spectrum inside the big traile category. The 950 adventure has more in common with an Hp2 than a 1200gs or a F800. They've all got their problems, I think for the most part we can agree if you want to go stupid fast on a big bike the F800 is a bit less well suited than the 950 for the same thing. At the same time if I wanted to not have to think about the bike as much and just cruise along enjoying the views and the ride I'm sure I'd be happy on an F800.
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:30 AM   #81
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HOLY SMOKES ! ! !

Itsatdm........I just now got it!

I'm a little slow, ok a lot, sometimes. I've been pondering your little hint....and you're right, of course!

ITS A TDM

That there is the best ADV "Handle" for an F800GS owner that could possibly exist.

You should change your Avatar photo to help make more sense....but photoshop a BMW logo on it.

HF

ITSATM, My personalized plate, meant to satisfy the gas station crowd who always asked, "what bike is that?". Instead they asked, "is it really tedious to ride a motorcycle?"(Tedium)

A very good bike, that Yamaha still makes. I wished Yamaha brought back a new Tenere with current the 900cc motor. The similarities pointed me towards the F800gs.
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:35 AM   #82
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[QUOTE=crofrog;16869587]

Time to put on my serious face.

QUOTE]

Be a good sport. I'm just returning the serve....its all in fun. I rather like your imbedded humor. Its quite clever.

I never got to ride an HP2, so I can't say.....other than that is one of the weirdest looking bikes I think I've seen. It never captured my fancy. Whereas, the F800GS really turned my head.

I haven't decided yet, whether its a blessing or a curse, but every time I make a pitstop on my F800 I get approched by gawkers.

Everyone pretty much ignored me on the KLR. They kept their distance with odd stares when I was on the Black Princess (my 950).....think they were afraid. And, they want to approach, inspect, ask questions all about my F800.....everywhere I go. Kind of weird.

Think I prefer the KLR appeal. It was easier to go unnoticed. Nobody wanted to pick over anything. Just sayin.

HF
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:46 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post

Time to put on my serious face.
Be a good sport. I'm just returning the serve....its all in fun.
Ok, cool it's so easy to loose tone and inflection. So that's why I put on my serious face. I'm changing back into my tuxedo tshirt now.

Quote:
I never got to ride an HP2, so I can't say.....other than that is one of the weirdest looking bikes I think I've seen. It never captured my fancy. Whereas, the F800GS really turned my head.
I can understand that. The minute I saw the 950 I knew I was going to buy one.

Quote:
I haven't decided yet, whether its a blessing or a curse, but every time I make a pitstop on my F800 I get approched by gawkers.

Everyone pretty much ignored me on the KLR. They kept their distance with odd stares when I was on the Black Princess (my 950).....think they were afraid. And, they want to approach, inspect, ask questions all about my F800.....everywhere I go. Kind of weird.
Interesting.

Quote:
Think I prefer the KLR appeal. It was easier to sneak in and out without being noticed. Nobody wanted to pick over anything. Just sayin.

HF
People just figured you where a hobo on the klr probably where going to ask them for change when they came up to you :)
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:56 AM   #84
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Don't mind him. He's inexperienced and doesn't know what he speaks. His reference to 'racing' and 'old farts' told us that much.

There's probably some sad truth to that statement. I'm not sure what percentage of 25 year olds drive adventure bikes and supermoto's but i'm guessing I'm the minority.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:31 PM   #85
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Not enough but enough...

Quote:
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Have you ever ridden an F800GS more than around the block? Just curious.
I've sat on the f800 bike twice, once at the Long Beach Bike show, and once at a local bike shop. And during this second introduction the owner (who was with a friend getting service on a Kawa KL650) exchanged looks and small talk. This led to us sitting on each others bikes and upon on his mention, we rode each other's bikes 1/2 blk through traffic and then on to the I90 expressway, a 5 mile straight stretch of freeway that's never policed. It was the same route I tested my first 950 on.

You're right, it was technically a ride around the block. Not enough to give a full technical review, like what I'd expect to read in Cycle World by Ryan Dudek. And since my 950 was already ergo'd to me it was like going from a broken in baseball glove to a brand new one.

Things that struck me immediately...seating was a slightly forward lean, seat felt narrow and bike felt low, "street bike low". Suspension didn't have that "kush" feel but cushioning felt positive. Engine sounded smooth and felt very "japanese" in a good way. Reminded me of the sound of an EX650, almost electrical, with minimal vibration. The bike felt easy to handle at those few traffic stops once my feet were off the pegs. Didn't like how my feet felt on the pedal at a stop though, almost tucked back. Motor felt smooth through all gears but felt tall. I got the bike up to 90 easily and the engine was smooth, but my shifting of the last two gears was early and bogged. I needed to wind it a bit more.

I did have to watch as the guy riding my bike felt no etiquette toward me and wound my bike hard and was way out ahead of me. It was the first time I could hear the exhaust note from behind my bike... sounding very pitchy from behind. The brakes felt better on decel then on my 950. We both turned around and headed back on the I90. I gave it a bit more throttle which the bike handled smoothly after the initial FI roll. The stock exhaust note was nice. The bike was much quieter then my 950 when it was stock. The motor felt nicely balanced.

We rolled into traffic on the way back which kept things pretty tame. The seat seemed to feel stiff to me, but so was my stock 950 seat which I replaced with a nice gel one.

This is a pretty lame account. Not one I had much time to plan for either. It just sort of happened.

But the guy who was riding my bike had a much greater impact from it then I had.

Hi vocal impression of the experience was something like "Wow", with a grin. Then he made sure to point out how "tall" my bike was, intended to be his knock on it. I mentioned how smooth his bike was, even at higher speeds.

We both noticed how much hotter the area around my motor felt compared to his, but that's normal... nothing in the range for concern. But point taken.

We parted ways, but expressions say more then words and I got the feeling his adrenaline level was increased much higher then mine.

I didn't not even think about seeing how much easier his bike would have been to pick up. It didn't feel much "lighter" in overall weight, but had NOTICEABLY lower center of gravity, so that would make a difference standing it up from a fall.

But riding that f800 for the first time didn't have the same exhilarating feeling that I felt on my 950 test ride.

This is not meant to be a "review" because it's as you say... a ride around the block. And as a review it would suck ass. So sorry for the waste of words. But, you asked for it. So there it was, from what I could remember two years back.

However, I can positively say that the f800 felt WAY SMOOTHER during this on road biking experience then my 950 ever would be. The motor is very smooth, the exhaust sounding nice and contained, the brakes felt a bit quicker. That's a definite impression I took away from it.

But I didn't buy my bike to be a city bike, this bike wasn't marketed to me to be a city bike and I wouldn't be shopping for a city bike if I was test riding this bike anyway. So, no... the f800 wouldn't have been what I was looking for. It would have confused me as to what it was trying to do for me. If I was looking for a "street bike", I would not go this route.

You are right in the fact that most people don't take their bikes off road. So in that case, it would make sense if you didn't plan on doing much offroading, if at all. But that is just too foreign of a concept for me to prescribe to, "buying a dual sport looking street bike for intended street use."

What most, if not all of the KTM Adventure owners found, was a nice surprise in the bikes on-road capabilities.

My KTM 950 has become an obsession to ride, and I find myself making all kind of excuses to run errands on it. And I now ride it into work more then I drive the cage there. I think it was a big surprise for 950/990 owners as well as the factory- at how well the bike is as a daily driver. The secret was in the balance of the bike, the "kush" suspension and the feel of the motor. This was an added bonus, not what most of us even expected.

To set the record straight on these KTM Adventure bikes... some people experience wind buffetting, those with taller upper torso that extend beyond the draft of the screen. I don't ( probably a similar body type to the designers and test riders), but there are simple fixes, altering the venturi at the screen line, either up or down.

The bike is a lot of motor tucked under the bike, it generates a lot of central heat. It is manageable but there are simple aux fan kits that when easily installed minimizes the still heat issues. A permanent solution for under $150.

The clutch slave cylinder problem was caused by the engine heat breaking down the simple slave bellow. These "gaskets" wear in time, not quickly. Replacements are easy or aftermarket slaves use a heat resistant bellow... another permanent solution solved for under $150.

My carbs have incredibly ACCURATE throttle response. The carbs have definitive jet and float settings that were not completely mastered by the factory. This perfected information is standard info to knowledgeable KTM technicians and bike owners now. There's no excuse if your carb'd bike isn't running at peak performance at this day and age. The carb version of the KTM Adventure is a simple, solid design, although geared more for performance then fuel economy. But were talking about a $1.75 more per fill up. I find that cost is well worth the performance I gain rather then a concern for fuel economy. And my motor runs very smooth. For those carb'd bike owners who never had the opportunity to experience the newer setting dial in's, I'm sorry you missed out on this improvement.

As was mentioned earlier, I am a "good reader". And ALL the information about any problems and their solutions for all of these bikes can be obtained by simple research prior to making any unsure of or risky decisions.

This website has been incredible for all who take the time to research the nuances of the products out there, and THEN IMPLEMENT what you've uncovered.

It's almost more valuable to have a product that's been used the most, with tons of feedback on potential problems and ingenious solutions... then to purchase a new product out of the box that's never really been tested before.

One thing I always recommend to those looking for a new bike is to try to find a newer model USED, one that has had some break in time done where the previous owner worked out some of the production bugs... and also added some much wanted farkles along the way.

This is a great scenario regardless of make or model.

Pantah, good luck with your next choice and keep us all in the loop as to how things have worked out.

But beware, there are some very exciting new motorcycles soon to be released that may be worth waiting for.

Good luck.
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:33 PM   #86
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There's probably some sad truth to that statement. I'm not sure what percentage of 25 year olds drive adventure bikes and supermoto's but i'm guessing I'm the minority.
Lots of us on this forum have serious experience racing motorcycles, and some of us did it for money. So when you post the imagery you did, it rings hollow if you know what I mean. None of the racers here would make such statements, because it doesn't even register. Your lecturing was a total disconnect of a newbie to motorcycling.

Interestingly, many of the old farts you attack are ex-racers! Those boys did that thing and they relish every vision of when they backed that Mutha Scoota' in and claimed their rightful position in the pursuit of the checkered flag.

Adventure riding is a great outlet for us old fart racers. Most of us are decades past our days of glory. But the truth is, we don't want to get hurt anymore. We all have been hurt. Every single one of us. On the other hand, we like the thrill of a few moments during a ride when things come together in that masterful way. Such a high!

Try a few races. They have more noob friendly classes today (even with your Suzy). You will always be part of something special if you've tried racing at least a few times.
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:33 PM   #87
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Wow....2 years ago....I think you're memory of sensations is very good, DesertSurfer. I think you've described the F800GS performance down the street and highway very accurately. Other than, maybe a lot of front end brake dive (in forks) its quite accurate to what I experienced.

First order of business for me was to unwind all the ergos and open up the riding stance, which I have done successfully.

Absolutely no doubt mine 950 was truly exhilarating to twist the throttle on the highway. The grin factor was very big. I still get a similar thing on my F800, but for a little bit different reason. The smoothness of the 85 hp acceleration really makes me smile. That might be the "getting older" part of my equation.

Its that grinning power rush, that seemed to work against me in the tight stuff....combined with what I thought was a pitiful turning radius on my 950, that I couldn't fix easily. The 950 wanted to fall inward into a full-lock, tight slow speed turn (heavily), whereas my F800 stays quite balanced in more of a neutral weight bias during same maneuver.

To be certain, I have a smaller WR250R that I flog the single track with. But I keep finding myself out in the tight stuff on my long adventure trips....often solo in places I probably ought not to be. Is there corrective psyco-therapy for that behavior?

Maybe that's the underlying issue for me. Somewhere deep within, I realized I was going to get my 950 ship into a bottle that I couldn't squeeze back out. I feel more "solo-confident" on my F800. I think I'm less likely to get myself into bad trouble (read smoother more linear power) and pick it up, turn it around and vamoose when I realize what I've done.

My 950 would unexpectedly die on me for no apparent identifiable reason. This became somewhat annoying and made me nervous about getting too deep on a solo excursion. It shook my confidence. I always got it going again, eventually, for no logical reason. Never did figure that one out....and I'm a fairly decent mechanic. The worst part: it was completely unpredictable. No identifiable pattern or diagnosible symptom. Fuel + fire = run.....I know....there are only so many pieces to the puzzle. I finally chocked it up to bad Kharma....

HF
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:44 PM   #88
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Lots of us on this forum have serious experience racing motorcycles, and some of us did it for money. So when you post the imagery you did, it rings hollow if you know what I mean. None of the racers here would make such statements, because it doesn't even register. Your lecturing was a total disconnect of a newbie to motorcycling.
It should ring like a joke cause it was. Call me a newbie if you want that's cool I'm personally never done learning and improving and I'll keep having fun doing what I'm doing.

Quote:
Interestingly, many of the old farts you attack are ex-racers! Those boys did that thing and they relish every vision of when they backed that Mutha Scoota' in and claimed their rightful position in the pursuit of the checkered flag.
Once again, not attacking joking. In the my choice is always better than your choice sorta way that these threads always pull up.

Quote:
Adventure riding is a great outlet for us old fart racers. Most of us are decades past our days of glory. But the truth is, we don't want to get hurt anymore. We all have been hurt. Every single one of us. On the other hand, we like the thrill of a few moments during a ride when things come together in that masterful way. Such a high!

Try a few races. They have more noob friendly classes today (even with your Suzy). You will always be part of something special if you've tried racing at least a few times.
I don't have the DRZ400 any more. I've got a KTM 200exc, KTM 450 SMR, and a 950 adventure. The SMR doesn't have plates or lights and only see's track duty. The 200exc see's more than just trail riding, and the adventure is my anything else bike. The SMR will be seeing ESMRA duty.

I'm currently looking at an sv650 to go ltw twins racing or some 600cc I4 for either supersport or superstock depending on what I can find.
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Old 09-16-2011, 02:13 PM   #89
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I'm going to go do some coke off a hookers titty. Let me know when you're ready to ride.
Cool, let's go! All the hookers I know have two tits.
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Old 09-16-2011, 02:41 PM   #90
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It should ring like a joke cause it was. Call me a newbie if you want that's cool I'm personally never done learning and improving and I'll keep having fun doing what I'm doing.



Once again, not attacking joking. In the my choice is always better than your choice sorta way that these threads always pull up.



I don't have the DRZ400 any more. I've got a KTM 200exc, KTM 450 SMR, and a 950 adventure. The SMR doesn't have plates or lights and only see's track duty. The 200exc see's more than just trail riding, and the adventure is my anything else bike. The SMR will be seeing ESMRA duty.

I'm currently looking at an sv650 to go ltw twins racing or some 600cc I4 for either supersport or superstock depending on what I can find.
Good boy on all points except for the road racing part. The SV is cool, but that is actually for the old farts. They been there and done that. They show up and race those lightweight classes every weekend, and you'll never beat those mutha scoota's. They have it all figured out seriously. If you try that route, you'll probably buy a set of tires per weekend once you make 'expert'. $300 a pop.

Road racing is very expensive if you are trying to compete. Maybe $1000 per weekend on a lightweight bike all in. If you bump to a big bike you will buy an extra set of tires, That is near $500 if you use Dunlop. $460 if Pirelli.

The new AMA Pro rules are helpful. They use a spec tire and the spec tires cost only $375 per set. You get 7 rear tires and five fronts as a maximum. Not bad, compared to what they charge for the English versions in club racing (half second faster). I spent only $1580 on the New Jersey AMA round for tires, and I am proud of that savings. But we had mechanical issues, which ruined some of the track time, so we didn't buy the tires we could have.

My guess is you are very inexperienced about motorcyles.

PS: in any form of competition, beit motor racing or love, you never stop learning. That's the way life is. Glad you found some of that already.
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Pantah screwed with this post 09-16-2011 at 02:57 PM
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