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Old 10-14-2011, 09:26 AM   #76
gmiguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
By that argument if I have a car I should not have to pay road tax (registration) on my motorcycle because I already paid it???
It's not an argument, it's a statement of fact. Most adult bicyclists also own cars, pay into the system with their registration and fuel taxes, and are therefore not "free riders".

Using more fuel (and therefore paying more fuel taxes) does not give you a greater right to the road or make it "your road". Would you want a guy in an S-Class to take the approach that he has a greater right to the road than motorcyclists because his taxes and fuel consumption are much higher than any motorcycle?
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:38 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
You are a relatively rare cyclist, as the idiots that ride side by side on 55 mph roads with blind curves here are demonstrate.
Actually, no. I'm not the rare cyclist, I'm the most common type, it's human nature to ignore the ones that blend in and don't cause problems but focus on the few who do cause problems.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:48 AM   #78
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:19 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmiguy View Post
It's not an argument, it's a statement of fact. Most adult bicyclists also own cars, pay into the system with their registration and fuel taxes, and are therefore not "free riders".

Using more fuel (and therefore paying more fuel taxes) does not give you a greater right to the road or make it "your road". Would you want a guy in an S-Class to take the approach that he has a greater right to the road than motorcyclists because his taxes and fuel consumption are much higher than any motorcycle?

....its not about right or more right to the road, you miss the point....your using a public utility with out putting into the system. If they had one flat tax for all road use then maybe it would make sense....but its per vehicle..what about an electric car??? no fuel tax...yet they still need to register to drive on the road...
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Old 10-14-2011, 01:42 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
....its not about right or more right to the road, you miss the point....your using a public utility with out putting into the system.
Again, almost all adult bicyclists also own and operate cars, and therefore do "put into the system".

Do you also object to people walking along the road, because they are not "putting into the system"? When you see a walker, do you assume that they do not own a car and only ever travel by walking?
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Old 10-14-2011, 02:00 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by gmiguy View Post
Again, almost all adult bicyclists also own and operate cars, and therefore do "put into the system".

Do you also object to people walking along the road, because they are not "putting into the system"? When you see a walker, do you assume that they do not own a car and only ever travel by walking?

I was waiting for the lame pedestrian argument....as not consider vehicles, and not subject to the rules of the road as it pertains to traffic, pedestrians are irrelevant to this discussion. But since you predictably brought it up , they have side walks, paid for by tax dollars, bikes can't use the side walks....but yet the bike owner paid taxes.... pedestrians can't walk in the middle of the road....or hold up traffic either....

Bicycles should pay a reg fee to use the roads, they are subject to all other traffic laws. The mode of power is irrelevant. I pay a registration fee for every vehicle I own...just because I pay for one doesn't mean that all the others are exempt. If mode of power is the issue what about propane and natural gas powered vehicles....hmm no revenue from fuel taxes there....oh wait they paid registration fees....
I'm not suggestion a bike should pay the same as a car or even motorcycle I realize they impact roads less and should pay accordingly but if your giving a group the same rights as another they should have the same burdens as well.
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Old 10-14-2011, 02:08 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmiguy View Post
Again, almost all adult bicyclists also own and operate cars, and therefore do "put into the system".

Do you also object to people walking along the road, because they are not "putting into the system"? When you see a walker, do you assume that they do not own a car and only ever travel by walking?
I object to people crossing the road without looking and cutting in front of a car.
I object to groups of people walking in the middle of the road trying to assert their manhood.
I object to pedestrians crossing an intersection against a red light.
I object to those that walk on the side of the road in the same direction as trafic.
And those are just the ones that come to mind.
I'm sure there are many other examples to be mentionned.

There is no cure for stupid.

When I see a man riding a bicycle, I assume he lost his license for drunk driving.
There, I said it!
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Old 10-14-2011, 02:13 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by O.C.F.RIDER View Post
Egg-zac-ly!
So then, why the hell do the bicyclist's act like it's theirs and theirs alone? HUH?
Going slow...............stay to the right! SINGLE FILE! Just WHY is that so hard?? If the Spandex wearer's would just do that, there wouldn't be all the "harshin' on their mellow" going on here!

Now Fuck-off!


Chris
I won't fuck-off! You have learn to SHARE, cause sharing is caring and I do know that you deep down care for my Danish spandex clad, soccer mom attracting bunz!

So, go suck a goat!
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Old 10-14-2011, 02:17 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
I was waiting for the lame pedestrian argument....as not consider vehicles, and not subject to the rules of the road as it pertains to traffic, pedestrians are irrelevant to this discussion. But since you predictably brought it up , they have side walks, paid for by tax dollars, bikes can't use the side walks....but yet the bike owner paid taxes.... pedestrians can't walk in the middle of the road....or hold up traffic either....
There are large portions of the country where sidewalks do not exist, so people walk along the road shoulder same as bicyclists do.

Pedestrians are relevant inasmuch as they share the following characteristics with bicycles:
-Slower and more vulnerable to collision injuries than motorized vehicles
-Exempt from registration and licensing
-De facto exempt from fuel taxes
-Cause little to no damage/wear to the road surface

In fact, I'd submit that a bicycle has more in common with a pedestrian than it does with a car; especially in areas where side walks are limited or nonexistent.

Despite that, I'm sure that if bikes could be successfully taxed they would be. I think practical issues are the primary reason that no widespread registration/plating process exists for bicycles. There's no VIN, no title, and no odometer on a bike, and they're generally low-value compared to motorized vehicles. I don't see any logical reason not to plate/tax bicycles, but I also don't see a practical way to implement it.

I'm sure if you could buy a new car for $300 at a department store with no paperwork whatsoever they would be much harder to tax, too.

gmiguy screwed with this post 10-14-2011 at 02:26 PM
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:26 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmiguy View Post
There are large portions of the country where sidewalks do not exist, so people walk along the road shoulder same as bicyclists do.

Pedestrians are relevant inasmuch as they share the following characteristics with bicycles:
-Slower and more vulnerable to collision injuries than motorized vehicles
-Exempt from registration and licensing
-De facto exempt from fuel taxes
-Cause little to no damage/wear to the road surface

In fact, I'd submit that a bicycle has more in common with a pedestrian than it does with a car; especially in areas where side walks are limited or nonexistent.

Despite that, I'm sure that if bikes could be successfully taxed they would be. I think practical issues are the primary reason that no widespread registration/plating process exists for bicycles. There's no VIN, no title, and no odometer on a bike, and they're generally low-value compared to motorized vehicles. I don't see any logical reason not to plate/tax bicycles, but I also don't see a practical way to implement it.

I'm sure if you could buy a new car for $300 at a department store with no paperwork whatsoever they would be much harder to tax, too.

It doesn't matter that you think they have more in common with pedestrians than motor vehicles..they are subject to the same rules....there for they should follow all the rules and have the same responsibilities. You don't have to tax the bike per say...permit the rider. Think of it as a riders license.....
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:12 PM   #86
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All this crap.

In this country, bicycles are vehicles in the eyes of the law and subject to the same traffic laws as motorized vehicles.

I am required, by law, to ride as far to the right side of the road as safely possible.
I am also required to obey all traffic signals.

If I am using a path system that intersects a road, I am required to dismount and walk through the cross walk.

Share the road? You bet. I have ridden in many cities in Canada and I've experienced morons in cars and on motorcycles
in every one of them.
My wife and I did a 75km road ride in Haliburton Ontario this past summer and we were amazed at the civility
of drivers. Maybe it had something to do with the large O.P.P. logo on our jerseys or maybe it was the fact that
people were just more aware of cyclists. I can only hope that all the bicycle haters are internet blow hards.
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:16 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by GP640 View Post


All this crap.

In this country, bicycles are vehicles in the eyes of the law and subject to the same traffic laws as motorized vehicles.

I am required, by law, to ride as far to the right side of the road as safely possible.
I am also required to obey all traffic signals.

If I am using a path system that intersects a road, I am required to dismount and walk through the cross walk.

Share the road? You bet. I have ridden in many cities in Canada and I've experienced morons in cars and on motorcycles
in every one of them.
My wife and I did a 75km road ride in Haliburton Ontario this past summer and we were amazed at the civility
of drivers. Maybe it had something to do with the large O.P.P. logo on our jerseys or maybe it was the fact that
people were just more aware of cyclists. I can only hope that all the bicycle haters are internet blow hards.
I never saw friendlier people towards motorcyclist as I did in Ontario and Quebec. Makes you almost go "What are these people up to?"
Quite a revelation to come back to the US and be tailgated 2 miles from the border....aah, normal again
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:53 PM   #88
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Cyclists wear what they wear for the same reasons people wear whatever gear they use on a moto.
It's more comfortable and more functional than the alternatives.

It really isn't to piss people on motos and cars off.

There are plenty of jerks riding bicycles, but if you did an objective survey, there are probably more piloting motos, cars and trucks. After all, there are lots more of those on the road than bicycles. I know I see them every day.

As for the tax thing, I pay with my car taxes, the moto taxes and the taxes on the fuel they burn, and when I ride my bike I'm not putting anywhere close to the damage on the road that the car does. And whether I use my car or not, the tax is paid.
If it would end the lame argument about paying for the use of the road, I'd gladly pay a registration fee for my bicycle. But no one has made the decision to require that. If you want that, tell your gov. officials.
Let's put registration stickers on every pedestrian's butt too while we're at it. There are no sidewalks within 5 miles of my house, so all the people walking are using the road for free too. So is my neighbor's horse, leaving crap all along the road to boot.

Get real.
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:16 PM   #89
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Fellows, please stop focusing on the spandex. I mean, we all know that motorcycles are great way for fat guys to pretend they're getting exercise, but do we really have to compound things by adding a homoerotic angle too? What would our wives think?

BTW, totally tax bicycles. My damned kid has been freeloading for WAY too long.
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:30 PM   #90
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If there is no oncoming traffic I go into the other lane, in more crowded urban environments I slow down and wait until there is no car beside me and give them as much room as safely possible. I myself am a cyclist and we greatly appreciate the space, please don't buzz us.
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