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Old 10-27-2011, 07:10 PM   #751
McNeal
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Originally Posted by tallguy-09 View Post
Does adding all those components really help me appreciate the GS even more?
Maybe but most probably not.
The only real benefit I can see is the added legroom for my super long legs.
I think BMW had two options with this model. 1) Add the complexity of water to the engine or 2) stop making the boxer engine. It's my understanding that with the latest round of European emission requirements it's impossible for a manufacturer to meet using a plain old air cooled engine.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:37 PM   #752
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Originally Posted by McNeal View Post
I think BMW had two options with this model. 1) Add the complexity of water to the engine or 2) stop making the boxer engine. It's my understanding that with the latest round of European emission requirements it's impossible for a manufacturer to meet using a plain old air cooled engine.

It's a pity because what made the GS so successful in the first place is about to disappear.
The Boxer with it's unique design simplicity, well the Boxer remains but the simplicity disappears.
The Long Way Round might be shortened to the next coffee shop?
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:31 PM   #753
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Maybe the radiator will have no drain and will have to be removed and turned upside down.
I made the mistake of reading that on my phone in public, and got stared at for laughing out loud. Worth it.
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Old 10-28-2011, 06:57 AM   #754
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Originally Posted by McNeal View Post
I think BMW had two options with this model. 1) Add the complexity of water to the engine or 2) stop making the boxer engine. It's my understanding that with the latest round of European emission requirements it's impossible for a manufacturer to meet using a plain old air cooled engine.
Moto Guzzi?

Jon
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:00 AM   #755
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Originally Posted by tallguy-09 View Post
It's a pity because what made the GS so successful in the first place is about to disappear.
The Boxer with it's unique design simplicity, well the Boxer remains but the simplicity disappears.
The Long Way Round might be shortened to the next coffee shop?
I always thought the design philosophy was based on sticking the pots out in the breeze for efficient cooling. With the Water Buffalo, there is no design argument to keep the same layout, other than to use as a very solid crash bar .

Jon
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:07 AM   #756
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I'm not a fan of it, it's not a BMW, don't like the details.
Too right it's not a BMW!

If the rumour machine is correct then Triumph will be offering a 135-140bhp competitor to the GS. For some (not me), that is a biggie. I'd rather wait until I can see and touch the real T1200 before coming to any conclusions but it does appear to have all the ingredients of a winner in this market. Needs a big tank (>20L, preferably 24) and Triumph should employ the guy who designed the GSA screen .

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Old 10-28-2011, 08:42 AM   #757
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I always thought the design philosophy was based on sticking the pots out in the breeze for efficient cooling. With the Water Buffalo, there is no design argument to keep the same layout, other than to use as a very solid crash bar .

Jon
That is PART of the benifit, but the way the motor delivers the power is the other part. IMHO

Jim
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:37 AM   #758
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Moto Guzzi?

Jon
Will there be a Moto Guzzi in the future? I just looked at the Stelvio which meets the Euro 3 standard that was put into place in 2000. Europe now has Euro 5 and Euro 6 will be in place by 2014. I don't know all of the regulations, but could there be escape clauses for small manufacturers? Maybe Moto Guzzi gets by on those grounds, maybe it's something else. Isn't also possible that Moto Guzzi is working on a water cooled engine, but is doing a better job of keeping things quiet.
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:46 AM   #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallguy-09 View Post
It's a pity because what made the GS so successful in the first place is about to disappear.
The Boxer with it's unique design simplicity, well the Boxer remains but the simplicity disappears.
The Long Way Round might be shortened to the next coffee shop?
Not "design simplicity," but rather "design elegance." Thumpers are simple. There are a few things that make BMW's boxer elegant: air flow, weight distribution, maintenance, and character. Changing from air/oil to liquid cooling only removes one aspect of the elegance.

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Old 10-28-2011, 10:04 AM   #760
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Not "design simplicity," but rather "design elegance." Thumpers are simple. There are a few things that make BMW's boxer elegant: air flow, weight distribution, maintenance, and character. Changing from air/oil to liquid cooling only removes one aspect of the elegance.

OK, I agree and I really like the 90degree rotated cylinders, intake on top.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:34 AM   #761
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Moto Guzzi?

Jon
So you are saying that you have advance notice that Moto Guzzis will remain air/oil cooled for 2013?
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:36 PM   #762
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That is PART of the benifit, but the way the motor delivers the power is the other part. IMHO

Jim
A 180 degree firing order twin is going to have the same power delivery no matter the way the cylinders are arrayed. The perception of the smoothness will differ according to the cylinder arrangement. The mass of the crankshaft and flywheel will also influence power delivery and smoothness. As well as camshaft specifications and engine control electronics tuning.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:50 PM   #763
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A 180 degree firing order twin is going to have the same power delivery no matter the way the cylinders are arrayed. The perception of the smoothness will differ according to the cylinder arrangement. The mass of the crankshaft and flywheel will also influence power delivery and smoothness. As well as camshaft specifications and engine control electronics tuning.
I had the F800GS with the "Boxer sound" but I didn't like that engine, the boxer is so much better.
I'm no specialist but the vibrations around 5000-6000rpm were really bad (very fine vibrations).
Not sure why but I think it has to do with the counter balance arrangement.

So are you saying you could achieve exactly the same engine feel (not the low center of gravity) with a
parrallel Twin?
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:57 PM   #764
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I had the F800GS with the "Boxer sound" but for sure I didn't like that engine.
I'm no specialist but the vibrations around 5000-6000rpm were really bad (very fine vibrations).
Not sure why but I think it has to do with the counter balance arrangement.

So are you saying you could achieve exactly the same enge feel (not the low center of gravity) with a
parrallel Twin?
The same power output and power curve. I left out the cylinder bore and stroke as part of what affects power output.

Your comment about the counter balancer is interesting. Ever since I first rode a 1200, I've felt that it has much more of a high frequency vibration than the 1150. I theorize that a counter balancer that is half the mass of the crank assembly driven at twice crank speed is only going to be effective in a specific rpm range.

I haven't ridden an F800 so I can't opine on it. The balancing method seems like it should be more effective. It isn't driven by a chain that can stretch and cause the balancer to go out of synch with the crank and become a vibration amplifier.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:10 PM   #765
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Originally Posted by Anorak View Post
A 180 degree firing order twin is going to have the same power delivery no matter the way the cylinders are arrayed. The perception of the smoothness will differ according to the cylinder arrangement. The mass of the crankshaft and flywheel will also influence power delivery and smoothness. As well as camshaft specifications and engine control electronics tuning.
Never miss an opportunity, do you?

I've ridden lots of bikes of all kinds of configurations. I prefer the opposed twin, but thanks for your unasked for opinion on my perceptions!

Jim
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