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Old 10-28-2011, 02:51 AM   #481
barrier
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Originally Posted by neduro View Post
The Mefo, and it seems to have a squarer profile which I don't prefer for handling.
Wish I was that good on my 530 that I could feel the shape of my Mousse!!
The WHEEL would have to be square for me to notice!!!
Go safe Ned!
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:57 AM   #482
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Of course, I can't look at this race without the budget dominating my thoughts. So, I've come up with a scheme to help raise some money that will be a win all around, I hope.

First, of course I'm selling T-shirts and stickers and the usual schwag.

In addition, some great companies have come forward to help make an even better proposition for you if you are able to send a few $$ my way. Klim, MX1West, Motonation (Sidi Boots), Wolfman, BRP, Adventure Spec (for Europeans), Outrider Journal and Butler Maps are all stepping up with awesome special offers for my supporters.

I'm also going to keep a private blog for supporters, that details what it's like to be working on this project, the budget, what steps I'm taking to prepare- essentially, giving you a window into everything that happens around the race effort. The first couple of posts are up, more are coming soon.


Support Ned
Update, 10/30/2011- A new great benefit (the other ones have never changed)...



The great folks at Layer Cake Wines heard about what I was doing, and as longtime Dakar fans, they were excited to help out. We decided the best way to do that was to share the joy by sending you wine! My apologies for non-US folks, but the legalities associated with exporting wine are beyond what we can manage. Race supporters will each get 3 bottles, Sponsors will get 6. One more nice perk, and a big thanks to the LCW crew. Look for it at your local shop, ask for it by name!
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:50 AM   #483
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Originally Posted by neduro View Post
Update, 10/30/2011- A new great benefit (the other ones have never changed)...



The great folks at Layer Cake Wines heard about what I was doing, and as longtime Dakar fans, they were excited to help out. We decided the best way to do that was to share the joy by sending you wine! My apologies for non-US folks, but the legalities associated with exporting wine are beyond what we can manage. Race supporters will each get 3 bottles, Sponsors will get 6. One more nice perk, and a big thanks to the LCW crew. Look for it at your local shop, ask for it by name!
Nice! A bunch of us get together each year for a Dakar party. Will have to save mine for that and have a toast to you
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Old 10-30-2011, 03:34 PM   #484
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He is also importing, although they aren't on his website yet, Mefo Bib Mousses. I've been running Michelins for years, and have never been particularly happy with their durability.



The mousse on the bottom is a michelin. The one on top is a Mefo. They both were used but looked fine going into Dumont a month ago, one was in C.Vestal's bike and the other in mine. You decide which one you like better afterwords.

The Mefo has, for me, a nicer feel overall and it clearly seems more durable. The only bad part is, I bought all of MX1's inventory, which is the only place to get them in the US, so you'll have to wait a little before you can try for yourself.

Mousses are a necessity for the Dakar, because they eliminate flats... but I'm finding I love them for adventure riding, too. YOu don't have to carry any tire repair stuff, you don't have to worry about rocks or square edges, they perform very consistently, and they aren't as bad to install and remove as some people seem to think. Mefo makes sizes that will work with 908s and such, where Michelin was pretty limited... glad to be using them!
Ned, question about these. I know nothing about them... would they work for rides like the TAT, or are there disadvantages to them compared to standard tubes? Always wondered why more people didn't use these, especially since they eliminate the hassles that flats can cause on long off-road rides.
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:29 AM   #485
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Just getting into the Dakar is an amazing feat, and warrants help on that alone.
And when you finish, and thier is no doubt you will, will be an extra ordinary feat.
Good luck, and ride like the wind!
I am honored to help out.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:05 AM   #486
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Nice! A bunch of us get together each year for a Dakar party. Will have to save mine for that and have a toast to you
So I assume you're planning on coming?
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:10 AM   #487
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So I assume you're planning on coming?
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:26 AM   #488
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Ned, question about these. I know nothing about them... would they work for rides like the TAT, or are there disadvantages to them compared to standard tubes?
The only disadvantage is that they do break down over time.

I ran a set of Michelins, in a pair of Michelin Deserts, this spring in North Africa. I think the total mileage I put on was about 3000 KM, and the rear looked like new when it came out, the front was pretty haggard, although you could have run it a bit more by wrapping it with a tube or sectioning another mousse in to firm it up. The Mefo pictured above still looks pretty good (with two more trips to Utah since that picture), so it may turn out to beat that distance.

Personally, I would definitely run Mousses on the TAT, down Baja, or similar. I have found them to be a real advantage in light and fast d/s riding, you can leave spare tubes and tire tools at home. Even running just a front mousse eliminates most pinch flats and means you only need to carry one size tube... but I run them both.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:44 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by neduro View Post
The only disadvantage is that they do break down over time.

I ran a set of Michelins, in a pair of Michelin Deserts, this spring in North Africa. I think the total mileage I put on was about 3000 KM, and the rear looked like new when it came out, the front was pretty haggard, although you could have run it a bit more by wrapping it with a tube or sectioning another mousse in to firm it up. The Mefo pictured above still looks pretty good (with two more trips to Utah since that picture), so it may turn out to beat that distance.

Personally, I would definitely run Mousses on the TAT, down Baja, or similar. I have found them to be a real advantage in light and fast d/s riding, you can leave spare tubes and tire tools at home. Even running just a front mousse eliminates most pinch flats and means you only need to carry one size tube... but I run them both.
Hey Ned, what's your take on the Tubliss system? I've been running it on my 390 Berg with great results and even ran it in my SE. I guess the only advantage over a Mouse is the ability to run a lower tire pressure. Not sure how it would survive a Rally though.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:59 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
Hey Ned, what's your take on the Tubliss system? I've been running it on my 390 Berg with great results and even ran it in my SE. I guess the only advantage over a Mouse is the ability to run a lower tire pressure. Not sure how it would survive a Rally though.
Others disagree, but I hate Tubliss. I've run it on my own bike, and fixed it on many other bikes that I was riding with, when either the inner tube failed or the seal between the red bit and the inside of the tire when pear-shaped. Suffice to say, I believe you still need tire tools and a tube and pump with Tubliss installed.

A plain old tube is simple and cheap and light. The point to me of anything other than that, is to not worry about flats and to protect things from damage. Tubliss does not accomplish either of those goals consistently in my experience. I think Tire Balls are a decent solution, but not ideal as they pop and can feel strange on the wheel.

The Mefo mousse pictured above just came out tonight, from another front tire being worn off around it, and it still looks the same. That tire suffered some punishment in Moab, which has some very square edges that I hit pretty damn hard, but they left no splits in the mousse beyond the trivial ones pictured. Very impressed!
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Old 11-01-2011, 03:24 AM   #491
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Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
Hey Ned, what's your take on the Tubliss system? I've been running it on my 390 Berg with great results and even ran it in my SE. I guess the only advantage over a Mouse is the ability to run a lower tire pressure. Not sure how it would survive a Rally though.
I tried them on the Tuareg Rally this year. Front started leaking the second day (2x400km of high speed pistes). Rear did not make it the 4th day. No more tubliss for me on hard surfaces, back home (only sand) it works great.

Very interesting topic, keep it going.
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Old 11-01-2011, 05:39 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by neduro View Post
Others disagree, but I hate Tubliss. I've run it on my own bike, and fixed it on many other bikes that I was riding with, when either the inner tube failed or the seal between the red bit and the inside of the tire when pear-shaped. Suffice to say, I believe you still need tire tools and a tube and pump with Tubliss installed.

A plain old tube is simple and cheap and light. The point to me of anything other than that, is to not worry about flats and to protect things from damage. Tubliss does not accomplish either of those goals consistently in my experience. I think Tire Balls are a decent solution, but not ideal as they pop and can feel strange on the wheel.

The Mefo mousse pictured above just came out tonight, from another front tire being worn off around it, and it still looks the same. That tire suffered some punishment in Moab, which has some very square edges that I hit pretty damn hard, but they left no splits in the mousse beyond the trivial ones pictured. Very impressed!

That's funny, my experience is the opposite as usual Two of us rode all through Moab last October on Super Enduro's and not one flat. We did Poison spider and Kane creek among other trails and no issues. We took the nasty part of Kane creek with the ledges and the Tubliss worked great! Love Moab!

One tire iron is all you need to swap the Tubliss around, but I've been running them for awhile now and they're very easy at this point. I had an issue this fall at a Turkey run though. Picked up a sidewall gash in a rocky trail section and the Tubliss held the bead on for another 40 miles..... then BOOM the liner exploded To be fair, we maintained our pace on the trails and for some reason rode faster than normal on the gravel, which probably overheated the liner, leading to the failure.



This is a great topic, thanks Ned for the response!
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:50 AM   #493
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What kind of mods are you doing to the D908 (cut D908)?
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:00 AM   #494
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One of the complaints I've heard about the Mefo/Michellin products is heat. When the tire heats up, they break down. Sometimes quickly.

Would they be advisable for a 50/50 trip or would you stick with traditional tubes? If tubes, when does it make sense to go the mousse route?

I should qualify the 50/50 as some parts of the road being high speed >50MPH.
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:10 AM   #495
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Originally Posted by ian408 View Post
One of the complaints I've heard about the Mefo/Michellin products is heat. When the tire heats up, they break down. Sometimes quickly.

Would they be advisable for a 50/50 trip or would you stick with traditional tubes? If tubes, when does it make sense to go the mousse route?

I should qualify the 50/50 as some parts of the road being high speed >50MPH.
I'm sure more experienced people will chime in, but in my research I've found that the heat problem can be well-combated with proper lubrication, although it will never avoid that problem indefinitely. It seems a lot of the heat is generated simply by the mousse rubbing against the tire, and can be considerably mitigated by said lube.

Michelin, for example, does not recommend their mousses be used above 80 mph, as no matter how much lube you use, the heat generated will be enourmous (ever ride at those speeds for a while then feel your tire temperature?), and the mousse will disintegrate.

I'm trying my first set of bib mousses in Utah the week of Thanksgiving, I'm sure I'll be able to report back after that with some more information.
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