Tire Mousse: for dualsporting?

[windquest]

Thanks for all the replies! I am glad to see all this information out there.... It seems like the durability of a mousse is heavily tied to proper installation with lots of lube and keeping speeds under 80mph. Of the one pictured from the D908 tire, it doesn't appear as though there is any lube on it, or was it wiped off?

Keep the details coming, thanks!

[MKJ]

I've got friends that ride ALOT in Baja and they use Tubliss. They love them. They also run the Bridgestone ED78 six ply tires. When they get flat, they just use plugs. They say the 4 ply tires don't hold plugs real well. I'm going this route myself.

http://tubliss.com/

[windquest]

Originally Posted by MKJ

I've got friends that ride ALOT in Baja and they use Tubliss. They love them. They also run the Bridgestone ED78 six ply tires. When they get flat, they just use plugs. They say the 4 ply tires don't hold plugs real well. I'm going this route myself.

http://tubliss.com/

Thanks for the idea but I'd like to avoid anything that has a tube(i hear they have an inner bladder) in it due to the remoteness of the trip(up to 500km from any soul on earth). Im looking at the mousse option because it would eliminate the need to carry spare tubes, patch kits, tire tools etc... other wise I think we'll stick to normal tubes.

[neduro]

IMO, the key is a proper fitting mousse, and keeping it very well lubed (and only with the correct silicon lubricant). The issue is that as the tire flexes, and rubs against the mousse, it creates heat (see James' pic!). Lube lessens this effect, as does a correct fit.

With those conditions met, you can get a lot of trouble free mileage from a mousse. A few considerations:

- Michelin Mousses don't fit very well in non Michelin tires. The profile and internal size of a Michelin is quite different to others (Bridgestone/ Dunlop).

A solution to this is the new Mefo Mousse from MX1West. They come in appropriate sizes for non Michelin tires and seem to have a nicer profile as well. I've also found them to be much more durable than even the latest M16 Michelin.

For DS use on the front, I'd get the 21-Big, that's what I'm running in Dakar. The rear will of course depend on the width of your rim as well as what tire you choose.

- As the mousse is used, it shrinks somewhat. There are a few solutions to deal with this.

First, you can go to a smaller profile tire. My favorite front, the Bridgestone M403, comes in both an 80 and 90 width. I prefer the 90, but order a few 80s so that I can get one last tire out of a mousse.

Second, you can wrap the mousse in an old tube- cut around the inside, set the mousse inside, and install. Lube everything, it's a bit of a mess, but you'll get another tire.

Finally, you can cut extra sections of an old mousse and just shove them in. So, instead of 21", you can put in 26" of mousse, if that makes sense. By the time the mousse is this shagged, you'll know how it should feel and be able to judge accordingly.

I ride them pretty much exclusively on my small bikes, it's great to be able to charge stuff without concern of a flat, they protect the rims much better than a tube since the air can't squish out of the way, and I can leave my tire tools at home. I've done a lot of exploring that includes both trail and 70-80mph dual sporting on them and have found them very reliable... but I lube them religiously and they are rarely installed in a single tire for longer than a few weeks.

[Renazco]

Originally Posted by neduro

Second, you can wrap the mousse in an old tube- cut around the inside, set the mousse inside, and install. Lube everything, it's a bit of a mess, but you'll get another tire.

Like this ?

[windquest]

Originally Posted by neduro

IMO, the key is a proper fitting mousse, and keeping it very well lubed (and only with the correct silicon lubricant). The issue is that as the tire flexes, and rubs against the mousse, it creates heat (see James' pic!). Lube lessens this effect, as does a correct fit.

With those conditions met, you can get a lot of trouble free mileage from a mousse. A few considerations:

- Michelin Mousses don't fit very well in non Michelin tires. The profile and internal size of a Michelin is quite different to others (Bridgestone/ Dunlop).

A solution to this is the new Mefo Mousse from MX1West. They come in appropriate sizes for non Michelin tires and seem to have a nicer profile as well. I've also found them to be much more durable than even the latest M16 Michelin.

For DS use on the front, I'd get the 21-Big, that's what I'm running in Dakar. The rear will of course depend on the width of your rim as well as what tire you choose.

- As the mousse is used, it shrinks somewhat. There are a few solutions to deal with this.

First, you can go to a smaller profile tire. My favorite front, the Bridgestone M403, comes in both an 80 and 90 width. I prefer the 90, but order a few 80s so that I can get one last tire out of a mousse.

Second, you can wrap the mousse in an old tube- cut around the inside, set the mousse inside, and install. Lube everything, it's a bit of a mess, but you'll get another tire.

Finally, you can cut extra sections of an old mousse and just shove them in. So, instead of 21", you can put in 26" of mousse, if that makes sense. By the time the mousse is this shagged, you'll know how it should feel and be able to judge accordingly.

I ride them pretty much exclusively on my small bikes, it's great to be able to charge stuff without concern of a flat, they protect the rims much better than a tube since the air can't squish out of the way, and I can leave my tire tools at home. I've done a lot of exploring that includes both trail and 70-80mph dual sporting on them and have found them very reliable... but I lube them religiously and they are rarely installed in a single tire for longer than a few weeks.

Thanks for the great details! You say you never keep them in a tire longer then a few weeks, do you just add more lube when you reinstall or do you remove the old lube first? I plan on running rims locks(motion pro liteloc), do you use 1 or 2 per wheel? any special tips running a rim lock with mousse?

What silicon lube do you use?

[neduro]

Originally Posted by windquest

Thanks for the great details! You say you never keep them in a tire longer then a few weeks, do you just add more lube when you reinstall or do you remove the old lube first? I plan on running rims locks(motion pro liteloc), do you use 1 or 2 per wheel?

To answer your questions in order- I just keep adding more lube (either Michelin Bib Mousse Lube, or the Mefos come with a little tub of similar stuff). To avoid confusion, I'm not changing them to relube, I'm changing them because the tire is worn out. Lite Locs are awesome, that's what I use also, 1 per wheel. No special tips.

[neduro]

Originally Posted by Renazco

Like this ?

Exactly like that!

[windquest]

Originally Posted by neduro

To answer your questions in order- I just keep adding more lube (either Michelin Bib Mousse Lube, or the Mefos come with a little tub of similar stuff). To avoid confusion, I'm not changing them to relube, I'm changing them because the tire is worn out. Lite Locs are awesome, that's what I use also, 1 per wheel. No special tips.

So when you run out of the little tube-o-lube the mousse comes with, what do you use? Is the a generic silicon lube you can purchase?

[olec]

Originally Posted by windquest

So when you run out of the little tube-o-lube the mousse comes with, what do you use? Is the a generic silicon lube you can purchase?

That small tube included, is meant for one tire only. And it costs a fortune when bying later. Buy it in those big boxes as you need plenty of it. There are alternatives too. I've been running the mousse's since they we're available to public, and some years ago I came over some silicon based lube they use when mounting plastic fittings in water pipe installations. When I change tyre and have used this type of lube, it tends to have more left on the mousse itself compared to the stock Mich lube. A couple of other guys I know they use this type of lube the electricians are using when pulling cables through those 'tubes'.

Here's another trick: when the mousse is getting older, it shrinks as Ned says. Then sometimes it's more challenging to get the bead on the tire to rest against the rim. Then you can either hit the road, warm the tire and 'hope' it pops in place. Sometimes it does, but sometimes not. Instead you can install a valve in your rim of this car-type whatever, so you can just inflate the tire / help with some pressure. Just remove the small needle inside the valve and also drill the bottom base to a bigger ID so you can let more air through as a 'shock'.

Second trick: I've never used rimlocks in combination with mousse. But you should not compare my type of riding / terrain with yours. Up here is more gnarly / muddy conditions. Anyway, when mounting the tire, use brake fluid on the bead (be careful not applying where it shouldn't go). Work fast and the bead will 'glue' to the rim. I don't need to do this for my type of riding, but I have tried it sometimes, and boy, that bead was really glued to that rim.

[neduro]

Originally Posted by olec

That small tube included, is meant for one tire only. And it costs a fortune when bying later.

Not so bad here, Rocky Mountain sells tubes for ~$3.

[olec]

Originally Posted by neduro

Not so bad here, Rocky Mountain sells tubes for ~$3.

Geee... Here its approx $15 for the small tube and $40 for the bigger box.

[Olmer]

Hello,

On the "Raid de l'amitie" (Marocco) 2009 i used tubliss (DRZ400S), and in 2011 i used Michelin Mousses (WR250R). The tires were Pirelli MT21 Rallycross.

On the little bike, i think the mousse can last a very long time (3500 kms on the last raid, and the mousses are still there and in good shape).

The key, as said before, is the speed on tarmac: no more than 90/100 kmh, and they will last a very long time (i have friends using Michelin mousses for many years on enduro bikes).

On a personal note, i won't use the tubliss anymore: I had a flat during the raid 2009, and i had to change the tyre (a knob were ripped off completely, with a big hole in the tyre !)

Regards,

Olivier;

[MrPulldown]

Originally Posted by windquest

Thanks for the idea but I'd like to avoid anything that has a tube(i hear they have an inner bladder) in it due to the remoteness of the trip(up to 500km from any soul on earth). Im looking at the mousse option because it would eliminate the need to carry spare tubes, patch kits, tire tools etc... other wise I think we'll stick to normal tubes.

Due to the remoteness of the trip is seems like it would be a good idea to carry a tube and flat repair, just in case. Seems like a mousse failure would leave you stranded. Esspecailly if you have no experiance with it.

Use mouse for the convenious of a flat free trip. Carry a tube and pump and levers as back up.

I was reading Coletech (sp?) report on the BAM road. He uses mousse.

[windquest]

Originally Posted by Olmer

Hello,

On the "Raid de l'amitie" (Marocco) 2009 i used tubliss (DRZ400S), and in 2011 i used Michelin Mousses (WR250R). The tires were Pirelli MT21 Rallycross.

On the little bike, i think the mousse can last a very long time (3500 kms on the last raid, and the mousses are still there and in good shape).

The key, as said before, is the speed on tarmac: no more than 90/100 kmh, and they will last a very long time (i have friends using Michelin mousses for many years on enduro bikes).

On a personal note, i won't use the tubliss anymore: I had a flat during the raid 2009, and i had to change the tyre (a knob were ripped off completely, with a big hole in the tyre !)

Regards,

Olivier;

Olivier, your experience with them on smaller bikes is very promising, thank you!