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Old 11-14-2011, 08:31 AM   #1771
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
...
4. Just leave the IICE Air adjusted to the -20° setting. It works great at the -20° setting. It leaves here set to -20°. And really, the primary reason for the adjustment in the first place was so that it will work with the upcoming IICE Cool. The IICE Air needs to be set to -10° to work with the future IICE Cool product. ...........

Poolside:
I think this is the correct thread in which to ask ....
I have read the materials and understand that IICE Air "tricks" the air temp. sensor, while IICE Cool will trick the oil/coolant temp. sensor and each provide different improvements to engine function.

Q1) I'm wondering first why they both don't provide a "general" improvement rather than segregated....
Is that just the way BMW programmed the ECU, and that while there is some "overlap" that the functions are "mostly" as shown in your chart?

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=146

Q2) I think you said taht the IICE Air will give about 1/3 of the total improvement, while the IICE Cool will give 2/3rds.
Why is that ... more German ECU magic?

Thanks!
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:47 AM   #1772
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IICECool question:

I assume that the IICECool will do something similar to the oil temperature sensor reading as the air does to the air temperature sensor. If my assumption is correct, will this adjustment be seen on the RID?

JC
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:08 PM   #1773
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Highly subjective review

I'm the original owner of an '09 1200 GS with 39,900 miles. All service on bike is up to date. The bike has a Remus header, no cat, and stock muffler. I have been running the bike with the Accelerator Module(AM) ever since the Remus install. My bike runs well and I did not have any tuning issues that I hoped would be corrected with the ICEE Air. This review is based on about 275 miles of riding at elevations of about 1000' to 1300' and ambient temps from 23 degrees to 65 degrees Fahrenheit.


I removed the AM and installed the ICEE Air during a cold snap here in NY. The daily temps were ranging from 23 degrees to 37 degrees. I initially changed the factory setting from 20 degrees offset to 30 degrees offset due to the low ambient temp of the install day. I rode that day and the bike performed what felt like the same compared to the AM. The next couple of days warmed and the temps were between 37 degrees to 55 degrees. I started to feel a difference. ICEE Air was still set at 30 degrees offset. I noticed an improvement at throttle tip in when lugging the bike. When rolling through corners in third gear at around 2000 rpms and as I roll on the throttle and ask the engine to pull moderately at low rpms I feel like the engine pulls stronger and smoother during this throttle roll on at low rpms. I also smelled what to me was a richer mixture when idling. The change is very subtle but I feel the roll on is smoother and has more authority. At 65 degrees I changed the offset to 20. The bike is running well and I’m happy. I can’t say that the ICEE Air has added to my grin factor but it isn’t hurting the performance and I like the adjustability. The logic is sound with regards to temp offset causing the ECU to add additional fuel and my subjective feel says it works. YMMV.
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:33 PM   #1774
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DId you notice any differences between the IICE Air and the AM at the very cold temps?

JJ
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:01 PM   #1775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
DId you notice any differences between the IICE Air and the AM at the very cold temps?

JJ
Not really that I could feel. I believe the biggest difference came when running with the 30 degree offset at high 40s to low 50s. I believe the mixture was richer. I would like to run the bike at the 30 degree offset for a while and then pull the plugs and see if visually they are displaying a richer mixture. My plugs in the past with the AM are ashy white and too lean a color for my liking, though the bike does run well. Maybe I'm old school but white plugs aren't my cup of tea. I prefer tan.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:11 PM   #1776
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I moved from 20 to 30 yesterday in upper 40 degree temps and the result was even sweeter yet. 09 1200GS with after market can only.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:27 PM   #1777
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I Know I Should Do The Homework..But

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
DId you notice any differences between the IICE Air and the AM at the very cold temps?

JJ
JJ,

How about the other way around, high temps and purposefully running it for a rich F/A. My concern and issue has been all my slow speed crawling off road in high temps with little or no air flow. I want a rich mixture to cool down the combustion temps. Smooth slow speed throttle response is a close second for my off road dances. Bike already has all the beans I need and torque to spare.

It is late and my thinking is murky but will the "Cool" assist the "ICE" in accomplishing my objectives? Settings?

As previously stated my Booster Plug smoothes out the throttle, but I can't tell if it holds down the engine temps. It should.

You and PS have really stepped up and delivered a useful product; thanks.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:06 PM   #1778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post
What you notice? Well, now we have marketing at its best. The only way to actually tell what is going on is to put the bike on a dyno and test the air-fuel ratio and HP produced throughout the rev range using each. Also vs. stock but we know stock is tuned to lean.

Without empirical testing its just opinion. . It may feel better but whether it is actually producing more HP and doing so at the correct or best AFR you will never know.
Drivability improvements can be helpful to good riding and have value.
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:39 AM   #1779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post
JJ,

How about the other way around, high temps and purposefully running it for a rich F/A. My concern and issue has been all my slow speed crawling off road in high temps with little or no air flow. I want a rich mixture to cool down the combustion temps. Smooth slow speed throttle response is a close second for my off road dances. Bike already has all the beans I need and torque to spare.

It is late and my thinking is murky but will the "Cool" assist the "ICE" in accomplishing my objectives? Settings?

As previously stated my Booster Plug smoothes out the throttle, but I can't tell if it holds down the engine temps. It should.

You and PS have really stepped up and delivered a useful product; thanks.
The way the IICE Air works is to use different 'maps' within the EFI that correspond to cooler intake air temperatures. This in turn makes those algorithms that use the air temp as an input, use more fuel (run richer). So if you want to run the engine richer all of the time continue to use the -20Ί offset even if the air temp goes into the 'hot' zone, and see what happens. It may just be that simple.

As for the IICE Cool it changes the input to the EFI which is used in a different set of algorithms that functionally sit 'beside' those that the IICE Air influences (see the graph). They work together in such a way that they sorta overlap in a functional way, this is why the -10Ί setting is available in the IICE Air. This 'overlap' makes the mixture richer over a broader set of operating conditions than either will do separately, which is a bit misleading because the IICE Cool REQUIRES the IICE Air to function properly.

But it should be kept in mind that running a richer AFR isn't the primary function of these devices.
Driveability is.

And driveability is about throttle response, and engine control, with a consequential increase in power and an increase in feedback to the rider via the throttle. Put another way IICE Air & IICE Cool provide a significant reduction in the vagueness of the response from the engine, when the throttle is twisted.

JJ
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:11 AM   #1780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post

So if you want to run the engine richer all of the time continue to use the -20Ί offset...
Let me correct that phrase, because it's misleading. The IICE Air does not make the motor run richer all of the time. It only makes it run richer during acceleration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post

[The IICE Air and IICE Cool] overlap in a functional way, This 'overlap' makes the mixture richer over a broader set of operating conditions than either will do separately...
Yes. And the two operating conditions that JJ refers to are during acceleration (IICE Air), and during throttle tip-in (IICE Cool.) The IICE Air does one, the IICE Cool does the other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post

But it should be kept in mind that running a richer AFR isn't the primary function of these devices.
That one is right on the money. Not only is "running richer all of the time" not the primary objective of these devices. The two devices aren't capable of doing that in the first place.

There are ways to make the motor run richer all the time, but that would not produce anything. The motor would use more fuel all the time, but you wouldn't feel anything.

If you want to feel it where it counts, get the motor to run richer during acceleration, and richer during throttle tip-in transitions.

Those are the domains of the IICE Air and the IICE Cool. Which is summed up nicely below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post

[D]riveability is about throttle response, and engine control, with a consequential increase in power and an increase in feedback to the rider via the throttle. Put another way IICE Air & IICE Cool provide a significant reduction in the vagueness of the response from the engine, when the throttle is twisted.

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Old 11-15-2011, 05:16 AM   #1781
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I gots the sales for the cool.

I will likely even order one, but for now. I just want my air...
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:57 AM   #1782
Wallowa
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Wow..Thanks Guys!

Let me correct that phrase, because it's misleading. The IICE Air does not make the motor run richer all of the time. It only makes it run richer during acceleration.


This should greatly help me lower my engine temps when running dirt in 1/2nd gear at basically walking speeds since I am rarely at a steady state throttle while navigating rough/loose ground. Lots of subtle off/on throttle adjustments coupled with steering inputs at very slow speeds, mostly going uphill. If the engine goes richer on accelerations even at these slow speeds the temp should lower and pre-ignition diminish. Downhill less throttle and more compression/braking to maneuver. This next spring/summer will tell the tale. Hopefully I will have both the 'ICE & Cool' by then. [Ink me in for a 'Cool' when released]


Yes. And the two operating conditions that JJ refers to are during acceleration (IICE Air), and during throttle tip-in (IICE Cool.) The IICE Air does one, the IICE Cool does the other.

If you want to feel it where it counts, get the motor to run richer during acceleration, and richer during throttle tip-in transitions.


'Cool' will help enormously to smooth out the aforementioned subtle throttle feeds that in turn help me stay upright at slow speeds. At higher speed I can get enough air over oil cooler/engine to keep the engine temps sub-critical; only at slow speeds does temp become an issue. Stopping on a steep loose hill to cool the engine is most often not an option. Thanks again guys.






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Wallowa screwed with this post 11-15-2011 at 11:04 AM
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:54 PM   #1783
CCTiger
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Air alone or Cool too?

Would you consider it a mistake, at least less beneficial to the motor to purchase and run only the Air, rather than the Air/Cool combo?

Have the Cools gone on sale?
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:46 PM   #1784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCTiger View Post
Would you consider it a mistake, at least less beneficial to the motor to purchase and run only the Air, rather than the Air/Cool combo?
A mistake? No…

But it's the combination of the 2 that make for a much more satisfying experience


Have the Cools gone on sale?
No not yet.

JJ
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• The farther you enter into the Truth the deeper your conviction for truth must be.
• There is understanding of the world precisely to the degree that there is understanding of the Self.

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Old 11-15-2011, 06:16 PM   #1785
slowoldguy
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O.K. . I have violated every rule of bike mods. I have had Ghost install the gofasternugen (in the dark parking lot of a diner I might add). Previous to that I had him change the airfilter, the end can, and set the valves. I also added a huge amount of aerodynamic drag with a new tinted Cee Baileys shield and matching huge winglets. And I need a throttle body adjustment/sync. So, I added several things at once to a bike that needed service. Good to go. lol


Report: Sorry, dudes. I gots no idea WTF the Aire has done. I screwed up all possible testing data. But, bike runs good. Throttle response is good for a bike that needs a TB sync.

Can't wait for the cool. Maybe I can be of some use to the collective then. I screwed this test up beyond recognition. :(
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