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Old 11-15-2011, 10:06 AM   #31
windquest OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPulldown View Post
Due to the remoteness of the trip is seems like it would be a good idea to carry a tube and flat repair, just in case. Seems like a mousse failure would leave you stranded. Esspecailly if you have no experiance with it.

Use mouse for the convenious of a flat free trip. Carry a tube and pump and levers as back up.

I was reading Coletech (sp?) report on the BAM road. He uses mousse.
The reason I was looking at using tire mousse was to eliminate the spare tubes/pumps/levers/time required to fix flats.

We will have a "support guy" with backup spares etc, who will be able to helicopter us spares in an emergency, he will be camped at one end of the trail. This scenario is obviously very expensive since it's in a remote part of northern Canada, but we simply do not have the capability to take every spare we would like as our bikes would become unrideable.

Our other problem is that we have to cover an unsupported section (Canol Heritage Trail) which is about 750km with no people, no gas, no supplies, nothing. Keeping the bikes as light as possible is nessecary to maintain fuel economy that will allow us to make it 750km without re-supply.

So far based on the above posts, a properly installed mousse, in a 250 sized machine keeping max speed below 100km/hr should have no problems making it on our trip, and as a back up our "support guy" would have the tires/tubes/spares/tools available to helicopter in should we have a failure .

If this turns out to not be the case then we will just stick with tubes and carry the appropriate spares & tools...

Thanks for the tip about his report on the BAM I will look into that.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:18 AM   #32
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Looked into the use of Mousse on the BAM road, it doesnt' say what type was used other then that the mousse was not solid and had a tube inside that had got punctured due to tearing in the mousse.

I was under the impression that the Michelin and Mefo mousse were solid?

I did also read about the crazy polish dudes on KTM400's that had complete failure in rear mousse after 300km, I am taking a big assumption by saying that they probably were not the right size, lubed properly, used with speeds exceeding max reccomended or damaged upon instilation...

It is hard to ever know as there was never any information on how they were installed, what size, what speed they were used at, lubrication etc...
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:35 AM   #33
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Thumb Great Thread!

Following your thread with great interest Windquest.

Can't wait for the RR. Good luck with the prep.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:59 AM   #34
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Following your thread with great interest Windquest.

Can'r wait for the RR. Good luck with the prep.
Thanks!
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:38 PM   #35
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What about tire balls?
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:55 PM   #36
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Tech Tubes

Tire Balls are an option, here's another, WER Products ‘Tech Tubes’ http://www.werproducts.net/Tech-Tubes.html and http://www.offroadmotorcycles.ca/jou...e-inserts.html

I've been following this thread since it was put up, I've done a lot of remote riding, not as remote as the Canol Rd however. Having a helicopter deliver a tube in the case of failure seems a bit over the top, one front tube ( can be used in both front and rear tire) and a patch kit really won't add to your kit and will give you the backup you'll need.

My two cents


Ed...
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fasteddy screwed with this post 11-15-2011 at 05:30 PM
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:18 PM   #37
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Mitas Mousse'lets?
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:15 PM   #38
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I've used Michelin Mousse in Michelin Desert (or sometimes Maxxis Desert) tires for aggressive dualsporting on an XR650R for years.

The front mousse lasts longer than the tire. Probably longer than 2. When it wears out, it just gets soft. Plenty of warning.

The rear mousse can get hot or can deteriorate more abruptly, especially in hot conditions, fast gravel, or on pavement. It can turn to goo, or sometimes it expands and pops the tire off the rim. (This happened to me several times, and once on the I5 at 85mph where it locked the rear wheel in the fast lane in traffic, but that's another story.) To avoid abrupt failure of the rear mousse: use 2 rim locks and use the M02 "Rally" mousse. (M14 is the Michelin designation for the smaller, softer "Enduro" mousse) Double rim locks will make the mousse last about twice as long as without rim locks, and will keep the tire on the rim in most cases of sudden failure.

In addition to the mousse, I've tried tubes, tire balls, and tubliss. All have their advantages and all have failed me too, but I use mousse exclusively now unless I am planning to spend hundreds of miles on pavement. Then I'll use a tube.

I'm so confident in my mousse that I don't carry a spare tube or tire changing gear any more. I carry some heavy duty zip ties and plan to zip tie the tire to the rim if things get ugly.

fun fun
Charlie
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddy View Post
Tire Balls are an option, here's another, WER Products ‘Tech Tubes’ http://www.werproducts.net/Tech-Tubes.html and http://www.offroadmotorcycles.ca/jou...e-inserts.html

I've been following this thread since it was put up, I've done a lot of remote riding, not as remote as the Canol Rd however. Having a helicopter deliver a tube in the case of failure seems a bit over the top, one front tube ( can be used in both front and rear tire) and a patch kit really won't add to your kit and will give you the backup you'll need.
My two cents
Ed...
Man, in those WER videos all those vise grips and hammering huge tire irons into the bead look like it would scratch and rip up the rim. Color anodized rims would really get trashed. Those foamies look like a LOT of work to install and remove. Never tried doing them myself, yet.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:03 PM   #40
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In a local enduro magazine I just read that they fit the Tubliss inner bladders underneath the mousses. That allows you to adjust the pressure for highway use while it helps to manage heat build-up. When the mouse becomes soft, you apperently up the pressure to keep the feel consistent. The bladder is completely protected by the mousse.

I have not done that, I have not seen the results in person. However, if this works it might just be the ultimate solution.

I would just pay some-one else to fit it
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Old 11-19-2011, 01:39 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Bong View Post
In a local enduro magazine I just read that they fit the Tubliss inner bladders underneath the mousses. That allows you to adjust the pressure for highway use while it helps to manage heat build-up. When the mouse becomes soft, you apperently up the pressure to keep the feel consistent. The bladder is completely protected by the mousse.

I have not done that, I have not seen the results in person. However, if this works it might just be the ultimate solution.

I would just pay some-one else to fit it
BINGO!

This is the ultimate solution! Do something to seal the nipples either by some tublis inner bladder or search in the LC8 threads (lots of guys are creating tubeless setup from sealing the nipples with 'something' in there). Then use a valve and regulate the pressure when hitting longer paved highspeed sections. I use my valve for putting pressure into the tire so the bead pops in place (when running mousse), and sometimes the high pressure stays for quite long time becaue the mousse blocks the valve and the air doesn't go out again. So, seal the nipples completely in some way, and you have the perfect setup. This was the most creative idea for some time in here.......
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:35 AM   #42
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Charlie, thanks for your take on mousse, I'm feeling more and more confident that going with mousse is our best bet. Max speeds will be followed probably 100km/h, temps will be rather cold compared to desert. We will see between 20 celcius and -10 celcius with most temp around 5-15 celcius, this should help against heat buildup... I'll also take ur advice on rim locks.
Jason

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastplace View Post
I've used Michelin Mousse in Michelin Desert (or sometimes Maxxis Desert) tires for aggressive dualsporting on an XR650R for years.

The front mousse lasts longer than the tire. Probably longer than 2. When it wears out, it just gets soft. Plenty of warning.

The rear mousse can get hot or can deteriorate more abruptly, especially in hot conditions, fast gravel, or on pavement. It can turn to goo, or sometimes it expands and pops the tire off the rim. (This happened to me several times, and once on the I5 at 85mph where it locked the rear wheel in the fast lane in traffic, but that's another story.) To avoid abrupt failure of the rear mousse: use 2 rim locks and use the M02 "Rally" mousse. (M14 is the Michelin designation for the smaller, softer "Enduro" mousse) Double rim locks will make the mousse last about twice as long as without rim locks, and will keep the tire on the rim in most cases of sudden failure.

In addition to the mousse, I've tried tubes, tire balls, and tubliss. All have their advantages and all have failed me too, but I use mousse exclusively now unless I am planning to spend hundreds of miles on pavement. Then I'll use a tube.

I'm so confident in my mousse that I don't carry a spare tube or tire changing gear any more. I carry some heavy duty zip ties and plan to zip tie the tire to the rim if things get ugly.

fun fun
Charlie
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Old 11-19-2011, 02:53 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Bong View Post
In a local enduro magazine I just read that they fit the Tubliss inner bladders underneath the mousses. That allows you to adjust the pressure for highway use while it helps to manage heat build-up. When the mouse becomes soft, you apperently up the pressure to keep the feel consistent. The bladder is completely protected by the mousse.
I have not done that, I have not seen the results in person. However, if this works it might just be the ultimate solution.
I would just pay some-one else to fit it
In this magazine article, did they just use the Tubliss inner tube, which is like a skinny bicycle tube, under the mousse? I assume they did not use the Tubliss "red bicycle tire" bead locker part of the Tubliss system?

I have used the Tubliss system with good results so trying to picture the Tubliss tube with the mousse. That would make for quite heavy wheels too.
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Old 11-19-2011, 04:29 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by cyborg View Post
That would make for quite heavy wheels too.
I've never used anything but tubes so i have no idea how much any of the other stuff actually weighs, but it seems like if you had a mousse and a tubliss system in there it could be comparable, if not heavier than just bringing tire changing tools and an extra tube and a patch kit.

Put another way, is weight savings actually a legit reason to dual sport on mousses?
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Old 11-19-2011, 11:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyborg View Post
In this magazine article, did they just use the Tubliss inner tube, which is like a skinny bicycle tube, under the mousse? I assume they did not use the Tubliss "red bicycle tire" bead locker part of the Tubliss system?

I have used the Tubliss system with good results so trying to picture the Tubliss tube with the mousse. That would make for quite heavy wheels too.
They actually used the Tubeliss inner tube in the rear and a bicycle tube in the front. The idea was just to be able to adjust the feel and extend the use of the mousse when it becomes soft. The tubes should be as thin as possible otherwise you'll not be able to fit it with a new mousse. I have a feeling that it would be quite a mission in any case.
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