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Old 12-03-2011, 05:29 PM   #1951
fir_chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowoldguy View Post
fir chan. Do a pic thread on your Thai ride if it ain't too much trouble. Don't get to see much of that side of the marble.

I certainly will. I am actually packing for the trip as i scuttle back and forth.... as you know...i dread the packing!!!

Will post it at the correct thread. I usually do a "live" update on Facebook for my family and friends to let them know i am still fine. A Blackberry helps along the way!
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Old 12-03-2011, 05:32 PM   #1952
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Originally Posted by grpweld View Post
" you are prolly going to like the 20* & 10* settings better than the 30* in those temps, unless I'm having a brain fart"
Yeah...heck.... i'll try out all the settings to see what's best!!

Last i heard is that Monsoon floods are affecting both Malaysia and Thailand. This is gonna be one of the wetter thus cooler rides in recent months.
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:28 PM   #1953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grpweld View Post
" you are prolly going to like the 20* & 10* settings better than the 30* in those temps, unless I'm having a brain fart"

Hmm... I always thought that the hotter it gets, the 30* setting would be better. Doesn't one need to reduce the ECU temp reading more to provide the richer mixture we want to achieve? I would think the it would be more beneficial to use the 10* setting for the milder NorthAm weather (using the 30* would provide a way too rich mixture).

Poolside -- can you chime in on this please? Thanks.
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:45 PM   #1954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opposedcyljunkie View Post

Hmm... I always thought that the hotter it gets, the 30* setting would be better. Doesn't one need to reduce the ECU temp reading more to provide the richer mixture we want to achieve? I would think the it would be more beneficial to use the 10* setting for the milder NorthAm weather (using the 30* would provide a way too rich mixture).

Poolside -- can you chime in on this please? Thanks.
I'm working on a big reply to your question asked in post #1831, but here is a quick-and-dirty answer to this. Fuel vaporizes much better in warm air, and doesn't require as much additional fuel as when the air is cold. Now please understand, there is so much more to that that it isn't even funny, but at least this will give you something to think about that isn't entirely off the mark.



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Old 12-03-2011, 07:19 PM   #1955
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Thanks.

And as a follow-up question, is it true that the IICE COOL will only work with the -10* setting on the IICE AIR, and not on the -20* or -30* setting?
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:25 PM   #1956
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So here are some pics of my install on the R1100GS and the K1100LT.
The GS was a breeze. For the K I wish the wires were a little longer so I could get it facing more down than up and mounted out of the fairing/side panel some more.







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Old 12-03-2011, 07:45 PM   #1957
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Poolside
Is it bad to cut and extend the wires on either side or both sides?
Say 12" longer....
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:31 PM   #1958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DidYouSeeThat View Post

Poolside
Is it bad to cut and extend the wires on either side or both sides?
Say 12" longer....
Sure, that's fine. Either or both.

But you know, you guys are making a big deal out of this adjustment thing! Seriously. Your desire to make a lot of adjustments has more to do with your predisposition say, than any significant requirement.

I made the IICE Air adjustable primarily to allow the it to work with the upcoming IICE Cool. The primary reason for the adjustment is the -20 temperature setting is too much when the IICE Cool is installed. The IICE Air needs to be set at the -10 Intake Air Temperature offset to work with the upcoming IICE Cool's Transient Throttle Enrichment.

So I'm thinking that before making any changes, you could try leaving it at -20 for a good while. Maybe a month. Then try the same at -10 and -30. Then you'll know what I'm talking about.

But, if you want to enjoy making changes, you won't hurt anything. I'm not trying to dissuade you or anything. Only that it's sort of unnecessary from my point of view.




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Poolside screwed with this post 12-03-2011 at 08:38 PM
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:52 PM   #1959
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Cool2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Sure, that's fine. Either or both.

But you know, you guys are making a big deal out of this adjustment thing! Seriously. Your desire to make a lot of adjustments has more to do with your predisposition say, than any significant requirement.

I made the IICE Air adjustable primarily to allow the it to work with the upcoming IICE Cool. The primary reason for the adjustment is the -20 temperature setting is too much when the IICE Cool is installed. The IICE Air needs to be set at the -10 Intake Air Temperature offset to work with the upcoming IICE Cool's Transient Throttle Enrichment.

So I'm thinking that before making any changes, you could try leaving it at -20 for a good while. Maybe a month. Then try the same at -10 and -30. Then you'll know what I'm talking about.

But, if you want to enjoy making changes, you won't hurt anything. I'm not trying to dissuade you or anything. Only that it's sort of unnecessary from my point of view.





Good to know. I'll leave mine alone (for now) and just ride.
Thanks



On a seperate note: I was joking with another friend (he's an Electrical Engineer) and told him the joke I made about the "rather challenging" 15T to 16T On-the-fly Sprocket Changing device.

My friend (the EE) said, "But that's mechanical.... Soooo .. That's for you M.E.'s to sort out..."

DOH!
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:05 PM   #1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DidYouSeeThat View Post

On a seperate note: I was joking with another friend (he's an Electrical Engineer) and told him the joke I made about the "rather challenging" 15T to 16T On-the-fly Sprocket Changing device.

My friend (the EE) said, "But that's mechanical.... Soooo .. That's for you M.E.'s to sort out..."

DOH!
Heh heh, yep. Divide and conquer, that's the theory.



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Old 12-04-2011, 02:07 PM   #1961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Here is the last batch of the original orders! I started on them yesterday, and it looks like they ship next week!

F.F., CO
R.M., AZ
A.H., CA
C.Y., AK
A.C., MD
J.W., WA
C.P., MO
M.K., WI
A.M., TX

Orders for the FINAL SALE will be accepted until then!
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:59 PM   #1962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opposedcyljunkie View Post
Thanks.

And as a follow-up question, is it true that the IICE COOL will only work with the -10 setting on the IICE AIR, and not on the -20 or -30 setting?
Yes, that's right. The IICE Cool modifies how the ECU controls Transient Throttle fueling (aka: throttle tip-in). For that to work properly, the IICE Air must be set to -10.



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Old 12-04-2011, 06:57 PM   #1963
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Smaller Front Sprocket vs. The IICE Air

Quote:
Originally Posted by DidYouSeeThat View Post

Test Drive completed:

Short version: I like it!

Longer Version: I did not use good engineering practices for my test. I changed two things at the same time, not one. I swapped the 16T for the 17T AND added the Device. It feels like a good setup. Snatchy throttle is gone and response feels like the 15T but with a better ratio for cruising. Did a little dirt mostly mild, but went through enough rough stuff two try to miss the lower gear ratio... Yea, a little longing for the 15T in the technical stuff but far superior to the "Stock" Setup (16T w/o the Device). Leaving the 16T on for now, will report back if I swap the gear back. Stock 16T but a better bike with the device, so its a win. I like it!

Thanks Poolside!
C.N. Ca.
Switching to a smaller front sprocket vs. fitting the IICE Air.

Regarding the improvement in abrupt or 'snatchy' throttle, there's a reason why fitting the smaller sprocket feels the same as fitting an IICE Air and keeping the larger sprocket.

The reason is, the issue that causes abrupt throttle response was never the sprocket in the first place. The abruptness is caused by problems in transient fueling. Changing to a smaller front sprocket does help mask the fueling problem though. I'll explain why that is a little later.

Here's the sequence of events that makes the throttle so abrupt. First the rider opens the throttle and immediately the motor goes lean for a moment. The lean condition causes a drop in power output. The drop in power output is due to insufficient transient fueling. The rider experiences the drop in power output as a momentary lurch.

The momentary lean condition, and corresponding drop in power output, lasts for approximately two to three combustion cycles. The motor doesn't stall during this power interruption, but you sure lurch forward in the saddle from the momentary decrease in power. The lurch is the first half of the abruptness. It occurs during the throttle tip-in.

Throttle tip-in is a transient event, it only lasts a moment. It comprises the period of time that the rider is actually moving the throttle, plus two or three combustion cycles. After that period, normal fueling resumes and normal power is restored.

When normal fueling resumes, the rider experiences the increase in power output as a momentary lunge. And it's the preceding drop in power that makes the normal power feel abrupt.

Did you get that last piece? The abrupt throttle is composed of two events, one after the other. The drop in power when the throttle is tipped in, followed by normal power a moment later. The lurch-followed-by-lunge is the abruptness the rider feels when the throttle is moved.

Why does the throttle abruptness improve a little when I fit a smaller front sprocket? The answer to that is simple. A smaller front sprocket is a lower drive ratio, which means it takes less power from the motor to move the bike forward. The lower drive ratio needs less power, so the reduction in power from the momentary lean condition during throttle tip in is less noticeable.

Fitting a smaller front sprocket only masks the transient fueling problem. And here's something... Fitting an IICE Air also only masks the transient fueling problem.

The IICE Air, and other competitive products, are designed to enrich acceleration, not throttle tip-in.

Now, if you dump enough fuel in during acceleration (setting the IICE Air to -30 for example), it will make a small improvement to the initial lean condition at throttle tip-in. But it will be overly rich during acceleration and will not feel as crisp.

So while there is a small improvement to one, it comes at the expense of the other. It's a blunt instrument approach that lacks refinement. To fix the lurch-followed-by-lunge at throttle tip-in, and really make the throttle responsive, you need an IICE Cool.



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Old 12-04-2011, 07:31 PM   #1964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
...Fitting a smaller front sprocket only masks the transient fueling problem. And here's something... Fitting an IICE Air also only masks the transient fueling problem.

The IICE Air, and other competitive products, are designed to enrich acceleration, not throttle tip-in.

Now, if you dump enough fuel in during acceleration (setting the IICE Air to -30 for example), it will make a small improvement to the initial lean condition at throttle tip-in. But it will be overly rich during acceleration and will not feel as crisp.

So while there is a small improvement to one, it comes at the expense of the other. It's a blunt instrument approach that lacks refinement. To fix the 'lurch and lunge' at throttle tip-in, and really make the throttle responsive, you need an IICE Cool.




Thanks for that explaination....

Said briefly (and I hope accurately), during leading-throttle the engine goes into open loop mode ignoring the O2 sensor, and fueling the engine based on a map using the relevant DME inputs -- one of them being air temp. With the IICE Air, the DME is fooled and made to think the incoming air is cooler/denser than it really is, and thus uses a slightly richer fueling than it otherwise would ... So far so good I hope....

Now ... the IICE-Cool will be messing with the coolant/oil temperature sensor. How is it that the DME uses this input during tip-in (and will be fooled by IICE-Cool) into giving us the digital equal to a bigger accelerator pump?

THANKS!

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Old 12-04-2011, 07:49 PM   #1965
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Very brief ride report:

Excellent!

It's everything they say. The GS has more grunt when I roll my right wrist, and feels about the same at steady throttle. Hooning around the neighborhood hills and streets, it's a refreshing change, and makes the bike more enjoyable to ride. I'm damn glad I got one.
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