Nascar 2012

[larryboy]

Originally Posted by shrineclown

Robby needs money, and he has burned a lot of bridges in his wake. Do you think they could get it together?

I'd like to see it happen, I think it'd be good for both of them. Hell, maybe Robby should just give Vickers his seat and go offroad racing while Brian makes enough money to support the one car?

[BC61]

Originally Posted by Motorcyclist

First order of bidness: word on the street is that Kurt Busch is out at Penske Racing.

more than a rumor...Busch is done


http://www.jayski.com/cupnews.htm

http://www.thatsracin.com/2011/12/04...urt-busch.html

[shrineclown]

Brian Pattie is going to Chief for Bowyer.

Interesting reports that the crew is disappointed Kurt is out. Feeling was, with the exception of the time he was on the track he was a good guy and they liked working with him. Must be Sunoco fumes make him a little fired up.

[Pantah]

Since so many are throwing KB under the bus, I'd like to rise to a little defense. The Penske NASCAR team (as well as Roger's arch rival, CG) have rarely fielded competitive equipment. Rusty Wallace won a championship decades ago, but with another team, and KB in 2004, but with Jack Roush. In my observation Penske has better drivers than cars. It's the black hole there.

Roger has the Keselowski kid who appears to be a phenom, but he's wasting his time with Penske. Those people are mostly incompetent if their record counts for anything.

I listened to Busch's exit tape. That Stewart fellow should tap him for a third car. Busch has a champion's exemption and gets a free start every round. He'll make hay with that and so will Stewart. They'll run up front and have a better chance of winning another Cup. Maybe even dominate Hendrick and make a few bucks.

Penske?

Well, they have the kid and he'll make some noise until he smarts up and moves on.

[shrineclown]

That is all true Pantah.

The story always used to be Rusty thought he was a driver and the crew chief and that is why they always struggled for championships. Several very good drivers have been through that mill. It was no secret when Kurt was lured to Penske, yes that deal was done before he got in hot water with NASCAR and Roush, that he was a tempest in a teapot on raceday. He wants to win, that is all he wants. Just like his brother. If you are not helping, you are in his way.

I was thinking Tony too, but it is awful short timing to put together a team like that from scratch and be ready for Daytona. Unless, they take the Danica gear and team and hold her off from Cup competition for a bit until they can get it all organized again and then spot her in.

Maybe he will buy all Kenny Bernstein's stuff and go breath holding!

[larryboy]

Maybe Stewart/Penske can do a trade? Newman back to Penske and KuBusch to Stewart?

I always think that guys in turmoil or on a multi-year losing streak should drop back into a lesser series for a year to find their inner racer again. Kurt should drop back to trucks or Nationwide for a year to work on being nice and to build some confidence while dominating for a championship. Look what it did for that bald doofus that used to wreck the whole field every time he came up to race with the big boys.

[Motorcyclist]

Originally Posted by Pantah

Since so many are throwing KB under the bus, I'd like to rise to a little defense. The Penske NASCAR team (as well as Roger's arch rival, CG) have rarely fielded competitive equipment. Rusty Wallace won a championship decades ago, but with another team, and KB in 2004, but with Jack Roush. In my observation Penske has better drivers than cars. It's the black hole there.

Roger has the Keselowski kid who appears to be a phenom, but he's wasting his time with Penske. Those people are mostly incompetent if their record counts for anything.

I listened to Busch's exit tape. That Stewart fellow should tap him for a third car. Busch has a champion's exemption and gets a free start every round. He'll make hay with that and so will Stewart. They'll run up front and have a better chance of winning another Cup. Maybe even dominate Hendrick and make a few bucks.

Penske?

Well, they have the kid and he'll make some noise until he smarts up and moves on.

Originally Posted by shrineclown

That is all true Pantah.

The story always used to be Rusty thought he was a driver and the crew chief and that is why they always struggled for championships. Several very good drivers have been through that mill. It was no secret when Kurt was lured to Penske, yes that deal was done before he got in hot water with NASCAR and Roush, that he was a tempest in a teapot on raceday. He wants to win, that is all he wants. Just like his brother. If you are not helping, you are in his way.

I was thinking Tony too, but it is awful short timing to put together a team like that from scratch and be ready for Daytona. Unless, they take the Danica gear and team and hold her off from Cup competition for a bit until they can get it all organized again and then spot her in.

Maybe he will buy all Kenny Bernstein's stuff and go breath holding!

Random responses:
1. Penske is not in the Hendrick-Roush-Gibbs league in terms of equipment, but they do have competitive cars and big name sponsors.

2. Crusty won 18 races over two years in the early 90's with Penske equipment, and would have had another championship or two were it not for Dale Earnhardt.

3. I believe the past champions provisional only applies to 4 races per year (I think that became known as the Waltrip rule). The top-35 points stay with the car.

3. Busch may have driving skill, but his all to frequent outbursts are not conducive to team building. He would do well to learn the old leadership axiom of "praise in public, criticize in private." He wants to win, and that is commendable, but he needs to realize that you can't win all the time. And when you can't win, keeping your head and getting the best finish possible is the professional thing to do. Interestingly, the sponsors stayed with Penske, so Kurt does not have a big pile of money to bring to another team.

4. He has made a real enemy in Jimmy Johnson, and that won't bode well for his future. Jimmy seems to be all puppydogs and rainbows unless he has to talk about Busch, then it is all daggers and darkness. Hendrick could afford to hire a guy just to wreck him in every race.

5. Busch got in trouble with the law and got fired from his ride with Roush. Remember the tearful apology, and the "I'm going to be a better person" comments he made? Guess what? He's still the same old asshole. He was the same old asshole when Spencer clocked him too. How many times can you reinvent yourself? There is nothing wrong with being an asshole, but embrace it, you'll get more respect that way.

6. He's now making noise about going drag racing next year. That is cool, hope he finds happiness.

[RedRocket]

Originally Posted by RedRocket

Penske already got rid of Busch's crew chief. Why do that if you're gonna change the driver too?

Oops! I guess I spoke a day too soon.

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by Motorcyclist

Random responses:
1. Penske is not in the Hendrick-Roush-Gibbs league in terms of equipment, but they do have competitive cars and big name sponsors.

2. Crusty won 18 races over two years in the early 90's with Penske equipment, and would have had another championship or two were it not for Dale Earnhardt.

3. I believe the past champions provisional only applies to 4 races per year (I think that became known as the Waltrip rule). The top-35 points stay with the car.

4. He has made a real enemy in Jimmy Johnson, and that won't bode well for his future. Jimmy seems to be all puppydogs and rainbows unless he has to talk about Busch, then it is all daggers and darkness. Hendrick could afford to hire a guy just to wreck him in every race.

.

I don't follow NACAR that closely anymore, but I have to differ with you over Penske's and Ganassi's competitiveness on the ovals. It is a rare day when they run at the front. Rusty had some good shows but that was 20 years ago. Thier new kid looks to change that, though.

Regarding the Champion's provisional, I just repeated what Busch said in his SpeedTV interview. Maybe he's wrong or I got it wrong, but he used it as a selling point in getting a ride.

What does Jimmy Johnson have to do with anything? He doesn't have a say in the driving careers of people outside his pitbox.

The king of the modern day bad boys is Tony Stewart. The paddock media can't stand him, yet he's one of the very few people in the sport that is truly entertaining. I'd like to see him pick a fellow bad boy just to piss off the dweebs like Doctor Jerry Punch and that knucklehead 'excitement' guy who used to run around at the back of the pack. Who gave him that excitement tag anyway?

Tony Stewart, the Busch brothers, Juan Pablo, KH and even Carl Edwards are interesting because they are fast, combative, and full of emotion. They had a long line of teachers too, starting with AJ Foyt and polished by DE. Who wants to watch Jimmy Johnson...

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by larryboy

I'd like to see it happen, I think it'd be good for both of them. Hell, maybe Robby should just give Vickers his seat and go offroad racing while Brian makes enough money to support the one car?

[Motorcyclist]

Originally Posted by Pantah

I don't follow NACAR that closely anymore, but I have to differ with you over Penske's and Ganassi's competitiveness on the ovals. It is a rare day when they run at the front. Rusty had some good shows but that was 20 years ago. Thier new kid looks to change that, though.

Busch and Keselowski have both run up front this year. There are lots of teams that don't win any races year after year, but Penske has been winning of late and has been in the Chase for a number of years. Ganassi won several of the big races last year with McMurray, and Montoya was in the Chase. To pull that off, you have to be competitive.

Originally Posted by Pantah

What does Jimmy Johnson have to do with anything? He doesn't have a say in the driving careers of people outside his pitbox.

I'm no Jimmy Johnson fan, but he is going to be a competitive force for a while, and he has teammates that are pretty loyal to him. 4 against 1 doesn't make for a good fight if you're Kurt Busch.

Originally Posted by Pantah

The king of the modern day bad boys is Tony Stewart. The paddock media can't stand him, yet he's one of the very few people in the sport that is truly entertaining. I'd like to see him pick a fellow bad boy just to piss off the dweebs like Doctor Jerry Punch and that knucklehead 'excitement' guy who used to run around at the back of the pack. Who gave him that excitement tag anyway?

I like Tony Stewart as well, and he is a bad boy. But he doesn't try to deny it, which is what gives him credibility.

Jimmy Spencer won a race or two in the Winston Cup days, and a metric buttload in various modified series (where he got his nickname). He was an outstanding modified driver.

Originally Posted by Pantah

Tony Stewart, the Busch brothers, Juan Pablo, KH and even Carl Edwards are interesting because they are fast, combative, and full of emotion. They had a long line of teachers too, starting with AJ Foyt and polished by DE. Who wants to watch Jimmy Johnson...

I enjoy watching all the above race, but can't support the Busch Brothers. The whining and tantrums are too much for me. If you like them then that is cool, we just agree to disagree.

[pbarmy]

Ragan, Reutiman,Logano and their lot are nothing but a bunch of mid pack bitches.Throw in 2/3rds of the field along with them."Our car ran well today,my guys did a great job,we want to build on our 15th place finish,BLAH BLAH BLAH!"Too many things wrong with NASCAR for me to be even a casual fan anymore.

[shrineclown]

In any good drama MC, you need white hats and black hats. Otherwise, what fun is it? That is the biggest problem the new NASCAR has with their original fanbase. Sometimes, a guy just needs to be poked in the nose. That may be why I love hockey! Brain and Dulltone have been successful with the WWF format of marketing, but the bloom is off the rose. "Boys have at it" until it interferes with our PC vision. The Busch boys are the last refreshing throwbacks. Harvick and Stewart have even bought into the Dulltone browbeating. I thought Kesowlowski was going to a great black hat too, but he has toed the line too now. Bahhh Humbug.

[Motorcyclist]

Originally Posted by shrineclown

In any good drama MC, you need white hats and black hats. Otherwise, what fun is it? That is the biggest problem the new NASCAR has with their original fanbase. Sometimes, a guy just needs to be poked in the nose. That may be why I love hockey! Brain and Dulltone have been successful with the WWF format of marketing, but the bloom is off the rose. "Boys have at it" until it interferes with our PC vision. The Busch boys are the last refreshing throwbacks. Harvick and Stewart have even bought into the Dulltone browbeating. I thought Kesowlowski was going to a great black hat too, but he has toed the line too now. Bahhh Humbug.

I heartily agree about having a villan, and Dale Sr. was always my guy. But I want villans in the guise of Dirk Dastardly, guys like Pearson, C. Yarborough, B. Allison, B. Baker, Earnhardt and others. Guys who were legitimately tough, and didn't try to softshoe it. Maybe that person can't exist in the new NASCAR, but the Bushes strike me as Polly Prissypants masquerading as a tough guy. I don't buy that they would stand their ground for a minute. If it came to fight or flight.........well let's just say I don't think they have the fight reflex.

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by Motorcyclist

I heartily agree about having a villan, and Dale Sr. was always my guy. But I want villans in the guise of Dirk Dastardly, guys like Pearson, C. Yarborough, B. Allison, B. Baker, Earnhardt and others. Guys who were legitimately tough, and didn't try to softshoe it. Maybe that person can't exist in the new NASCAR, but the Bushes strike me as Polly Prissypants masquerading as a tough guy. I don't buy that they would stand their ground for a minute. If it came to fight or flight.........well let's just say I don't think they have the fight reflex.

All those guys you mentioned were fun in their day. Cale was my fav. There was Tim Richmond too. Nobody came through the pack like him, except maybe Tony S at Homestead a couple weeks ago. Tim always ran a loose car with the outside rear tire smoking.

When Jeff Gordon first came up, he was a lot like that too. It was almost like his inverted starts as a teenybopper in his midgets. You knew when he was coming to the front, be it a road course or oval. He sort of went soft on us, but he got his share, so who can blame him.

I can't say about Kurt Busch, since he rarely has a car capable of winning, but his brother makes me think of Tim Richmond and Cale Yarborough.

As far as being a prissy pants, I don't think that kid is afraid of anything, let alone, getting punched in the nose.