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Old 01-05-2012, 10:57 AM   #1
GravvyTrain OP
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XL500R Seized at TDC?

This is my first rebuild and it looks like I got a seized piston. I want to take off the head/jug but the timing chain needs to come out first. I want know what is the timing for this bike so I won't worry too much about running into any more problems if/when I get to putting it back together..
From what I can tell- the piston is either at TDC or very close to it. The cams are down and the top sprocket has one bolt up, but the timing mark on the main shaft sprocket is at about 5 o'clock?
Also, anyone know if it is necessary to remove the clutch pressure plate and/or chain tensioner?
I'm worried about getting the camshaft sprocket off because of the stuck piston- I won't be able to turn 180 degrees to remove other stud.

Any ideas? =]




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Old 01-05-2012, 12:01 PM   #2
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YES the piston is stuck no more after moving the top cam chain sprocket !
I could put it all back together now, but I want to see about this cylinders condition.
Probably need rings/seals and I'll be riding again. Will update when I remove the head.
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:18 AM   #3
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Eek

OK guys I am getting a manual, but until then... AM I MISSING A CHAIN?? down there behind the clutch cover?
Looks like on the bikebandit schematic, there is supposed to be a spring that lets the front balancer move back and forth
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:49 AM   #4
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You are missing a bolt to hold the balancer adjuster in place. and yeah I think there is a spring missing as well should be on there to pull the adjuster back and up.

the chain for it is on the other side of the motor.

oh and the spring is not meant to let it move it is meant to adjust the balancer when you loosen the bolt that is missing.

did the motor move when you turned it backwards? it may be something broke on the other side of the crank case that had it locked up.

and these motors are easy to time. get it top dead center and just line the marks up on the cam sprocket. should be two marks on there, they line up with the top of the head.

There's a lot of info on here for those bikes and most of us that own one have been through the motor.. ask for help and you will get it.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchblade315 View Post
You are missing a bolt to hold the balancer adjuster in place. and yeah I think there is a spring missing as well should be on there to pull the adjuster back and up.

the chain for it is on the other side of the motor.

oh and the spring is not meant to let it move it is meant to adjust the balancer when you loosen the bolt that is missing.

did the motor move when you turned it backwards? it may be something broke on the other side of the crank case that had it locked up.

and these motors are easy to time. get it top dead center and just line the marks up on the cam sprocket. should be two marks on there, they line up with the top of the head.

There's a lot of info on here for those bikes and most of us that own one have been through the motor.. ask for help and you will get it.
Yeah it moved when I put a wrench on the cam sprocket and tugged it a bit. I will take off the other side cover as soon as the rain goes away..
Its a mystery how the engine could have burnt that much oil that quickly- I changed the oil after I purchased the bike, and had been riding it for about a week. There wasn't any oil puddles or anything like that either. I went to run around town and then it 'seized' . When I had tried to break it loose by riding a hill in 4th and 5th but no luck so I had to dismantle and go from there. I drained the oil and to my surprise there was basically no oil to drain .
My plan is to take off the head and find out whats really going on in there.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:02 PM   #6
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they hold all but 2 quarts. mine used a quart in 40 miles on the last ride I did before I rebuilt it. And it wasn't smoking enough to even see it. Someone had put a set of .25 over rings on a stock piston with the same old used up oil ring that it came with in 82. they had to grind the over bore rings to get them to go in the stock bore cylinder.

i've done a lot of work to mine and I've got to go back and fix a few things i should of fixed the first time. I sent you my number in a PM, and i trully meant give me a call so i can give you the heads up on what to look at fixing the first time, and the problems i created with what i did. I'm normally free to talk any time during the day.

i love my Old XL. and with all the Mods I've done to it it's making one hell of a bike. I'm in working on putting a XR400 muffler on it right now. it's not as easy a mod as I first thought but it's getting there.
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Old 01-12-2012, 03:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Switchblade315 View Post
they hold all but 2 quarts. mine used a quart in 40 miles on the last ride I did before I rebuilt it. And it wasn't smoking enough to even see it. Someone had put a set of .25 over rings on a stock piston with the same old used up oil ring that it came with in 82. they had to grind the over bore rings to get them to go in the stock bore cylinder.

i've done a lot of work to mine and I've got to go back and fix a few things i should of fixed the first time. I sent you my number in a PM, and i trully meant give me a call so i can give you the heads up on what to look at fixing the first time, and the problems i created with what i did. I'm normally free to talk any time during the day.

i love my Old XL. and with all the Mods I've done to it it's making one hell of a bike. I'm in working on putting a XR400 muffler on it right now. it's not as easy a mod as I first thought but it's getting there.
Wow now I could believe how much oil it burnt through. These old bikes need TLC .
And how do you fit OS rings with stock jug??
That is a great build you got on your xl - i like what you did with the headlight looks good.

I have taken the head off, jug off .
Looking at getting a piston [OEM or other?] & Set of rings
The jug/cylinder looks like it has deposits of melted residual ring material that has stuck to the surface. So I assume the shop will tell me whether I can just keep it at stock size or bore over.

PICTURES

HERE ARE THE VALVES.




PISTON/JUG
















Now I know what was making the tapping noise when running- it was this balance shaft flange hitting the chain guide because it wasn't bolted in place(it is now).



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Old 01-12-2012, 03:33 PM   #8
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Hey this seems like a good deal I found on ebay listed as "79-81 XR500 XL500 CYLINDER&PISTON".
$74 including shipping...I'm pretty sure that will fit with my motor

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Old 01-13-2012, 11:01 AM   #9
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So apparently all of the bikes from 79-82 are just about the same, and the jug is interchangeable.
This thread says it all:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-806655.html

I will order a gasket kit and an OEM piston w/ rings. Might be able to take my cylinder to the shop - they can hone it for $35 instead of buying another one.
Hope to get her running next week , stay tuned..
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:50 AM   #10
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that might clean up with a honeing if not go with the first over bore. I think it's a .25 stock compreshion piston. You can't hardly find a new stock bore stock compreshion piston. I stayed stock bore but i went up to a 10.5/1 compreshion piston. I now have a labor knock. But I think I know why. I did not replace the old warn timeing chain and I think my cam timming is off just enough to cause the knock. So here's my advice to you. PUT A NEW TIMMING CHAIN IN THAT THING!!!!! you are there and you just have to remove the clutch and maybe the drive gear for the chain. Trust me do it now wile you have the motor apart.

with that said the stock bore 10.5/1 compresion piston does make more power and it doesn't make the bike harder to kick, well it didn't mine but my auto decomp is still working. Do not go to the 12/1 comp. piston. you'ed have to mod the hell out of the motor to run that thing.

and if you are wondering they are 8.5/1 comp. stock.

now as to how they got the over sized rings in a stock bore. they filed the gap bigger the rings egg shaped to go in there. I don't know why it was done or how I'm just glad it wasn't ran much with it that way.

And 82 is a basterd year. the bike used thing from the older 500s and it had things that the newer bikes had but it's the only year that was built like it was. the 82 does not have a reed valve motor like some of the other 500s. so make sure the one you are looking at on Ebay isn't a reed valve model. And I just looked at them on Bikebandit and all the gaskets are the same on a 80 as they are on a 82 so that should be fine. but a one size over bore woult hurt a thing oun yours if it needs it. and after a honeing if it's still in spec. run it. it's going to use a little oil if you get over 65 regardless.

mine uses a pint to every two or three tanks of gas. well it also leaks a few places so it would be a little less. probly would go to 5 tanks of gas before needing any. and I get 120 miles to a tank. So it's really not to bad.

But trully get a new timeing chain.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:14 AM   #11
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cheap timing chain??

Well after a quick ebay search I have found a pretty good deal on a timing chain. about 40 bucks..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140659256680...84.m1423.l2649

No branding apparent - probably comes from Japan ..
Im happy to save money but I don't want to deal with a piece of crap chain that does more harm than good if you know what I mean..
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:18 PM   #12
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USPS to blame?

Well I received the cylinder/piston I ordered from Ebay today , and it showed up on my doorstep in a wet, torn box - with the top fin exposed and broken.







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Old 01-22-2012, 06:06 PM   #13
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Piston cracked

After looking at the piston again, I've found a crack in the skirt..THAT wasn't in the ebay description! Talked to the seller and now it looks like USPS threw my parts around like they didn't care about the neon orange sticker that says FRAGILE . Might just have to get INSURANCE next time
I'm fortunate to have spotted this before slapping it in there ~



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Old 01-22-2012, 06:25 PM   #14
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Bummer about the shipping damages. I'd be pissed at the seller for cramming it in a flat rate box without adequate packing.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:33 PM   #15
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Yeah that is the sellers fault for not packing it better. I use to work for UPS and a sticker on the box mean nothing. you want something to not get broken you pack it well, News paper is cheep. Anyway the broke fin wont hurt anything other then look bad and it's on the back side and will never be seen. I bet you could hone your old one ... ether way that piston was shot so a new new piston and rings is needed.

And I'ed get a good chain. you don't want that to brake.
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Switchblade315 screwed with this post 01-22-2012 at 06:41 PM
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