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Old 01-05-2012, 11:09 AM   #76
bones_708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraven View Post
Just because you're on a cruiser and not riding balls out doesn't mean you can't still crack your melon or suffer a spinal injury, cracked or broken pelvis, etc. Not all low speed crashes just result in rash.
Changing your gear to a lower level of protection because you're on a cruiser is just not consistent with reality.

And I can get hit by lightning on a sunny day. So? Of course there are different levels of risk. If there weren't then people would be wearing fire suits and helmets in their cages on the way to work. This guy may have a distinction between race gear and non race gear because that was what he was speaking of. Going full out on a track and a slow cruse. More people die in bathrooms but I don't wear gear there either.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:20 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by bones_708 View Post
I don't understand this conversation.
Ok, then.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:33 AM   #78
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My comment about traction control being a squid crutch stands.

Most racing classes prohibit electronic traction and braking controls.

They don't let you wear Duck Feet swim fins in Olympic swimming events either.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:45 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
My comment about traction control being a squid crutch stands.
Of course it does.

Quote:
Most racing classes prohibit electronic traction and braking controls.
Considering that both MotoGP and WSBK allow (and actively use) traction control, your argument that it is "for squids" seems moot. Unless you want to call all those guys squids?

Quote:
They don't let you wear Duck Feet swim fins in Olympic swimming events either.
If you don't realize what a terrible analogy this is, I'm not sure it's worth replying to your posts any more. Furthermore, it's not even as clear cut as you want to make it out to be, because they allow shoes (in running), all kinds of high-tech clothing and equipment (wet suits, archery, skis, snowboards, etc, etc).
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:25 PM   #80
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Somehow I have missed how the OP's question relates to anything in the article he is referencing.

The engineer dresses the way he wants to when he is on his own time (dime) pursuing his hobbies.

When working for BMW or playing on a racetrack, he dresses the way his employer or track owner (and their insurer) tells him to.

I see no conflict of interest or inconsistency in behavior.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:28 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
Of course it does.



Considering that both MotoGP and WSBK allow (and actively use) traction control, your argument that it is "for squids" seems moot. Unless you want to call all those guys squids?



If you don't realize what a terrible analogy this is, I'm not sure it's worth replying to your posts any more. Furthermore, it's not even as clear cut as you want to make it out to be, because they allow shoes (in running), all kinds of high-tech clothing and equipment (wet suits, archery, skis, snowboards, etc, etc).
I agree with both you and lemieuxmc, if you can't get the bike around a track without TC at a fairly good clip then you need to spend some more time learning throttle control. However, that doesn't negate the fact that the limiting factor on modern bikes in terms of acceleration is the contact patch of the rear wheel. Without TC you won't be able to wring the most out of a machine because the human nervous system simply can't match the telemetry gathering and reaction speeds of a computer.

Perhaps an example he can relate to a little better is that Marine helo drivers simply can't effectively pilot a CH-46 or V-22 to maximum performance without the flight computer, the control inputs required to do so are simply needed too fast and too complex for humans to perform them to maximum potential. Does this mean CH-46(47 for you hookers in the Army and Airforce) and V-22 pilots are inferior or are using a crutch? No, they are simply using all the tools available to complete the mission with maximum effectiveness. Piloting a high performance motorcycle around a track at the threshold of traction is no different.
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Of course the bike doesn't exist, this entire forum is here because the right bike doesn't exist but the right people do, and they make the trip anyway.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:38 PM   #82
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Do I perceive different levels of risk for different types of riding?

Yes, but not based on the type of motorcycle (cruiser, vs chopper, vs sport bike). The dangers at 60 mph in an uncontrolled environment are pretty close to the same for each type of motorcycle.

To me, the level of risk has more to do with the rider and the environment. Smart riders will select the proper machine and safety equipment for their intended purposes.

Riders with less knowledge will either improve their knowledge or improve the gene pool.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:44 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
Perhaps an example he can relate to a little better is that Marine helo drivers simply can't effectively pilot a CH-46 or V-22 to maximum performance without the flight computer, the control inputs required to do so are simply needed too fast and too complex for humans to perform them to maximum potential. Does this mean CH-46(47 for you hookers in the Army and Airforce) and V-22 pilots are inferior or are using a crutch? No, they are simply using all the tools available to complete the mission with maximum effectiveness.
Yeah they're using a crutch. At least they're not as bad as those fighter jocks who can't even land on a carrier without using a tail hook.


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Old 01-05-2012, 12:53 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Yeah they're using a crutch. At least they're not as bad as those fighter jocks who can't even land on a carrier without using a tail hook.



Oh, excuse meeee!

Are you saying Harrier "Jocks" are better than F14-18 and any other fixed wing aircraft capable of landing on a United States Aircraft Carrier?


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Old 01-05-2012, 01:00 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by IheartmyNx View Post
Oh, excuse meeee!

Are you saying Harrier "Jocks" are better than F14-18 and any other fixed wing aircraft capable of landing on a United States Aircraft Carrier?


I thought the would make it obvious I was joking.

By VxZeroKnots screen name, I'm guessing he might be a helo pilot and would get the joke.


And for your information, the F-14 is no longer in service. Too bad, it was an awesome aircraft. I had the opportunity to watch them launch off a carrier and also to see one do a low level supersonic pass right over the carrier.
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klaviator screwed with this post 01-05-2012 at 01:07 PM
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:02 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roam View Post
Can't be ATGATT if it isn't all the gear all the time. Which is fine with me, I don't ride because its safe I ride because I love it.

I dress for the ride and how I dress affects how I ride.
Personally I dress for the potential crash, hence ATGATT. It's not about a look, the feel, or anything else - it's about not going to the ER again. People that say otherwise just haven't had a big enough accident to scare them into choosing the sane option of body armor.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:12 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
I thought the would make it obvious I was joking.

By VxZeroKnots screen name, I'm guessing he might be a helo pilot and would get the joke.


And for your information, the F-14 is no longer in service. Too bad, it was an awesome aircraft. I had the opportunity to watch them launch off a carrier and also to see one do a low level supersonic pass right over the carrier.
I thought it was clever. And yes while I don't always fly, when I do I take off vertically. Stay classy my friends.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v8toilet
Of course the bike doesn't exist, this entire forum is here because the right bike doesn't exist but the right people do, and they make the trip anyway.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:15 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
This is the thing, based on the posed question, if you wear what you wear, no matter what you ride, you are not posing. If you swap gear like making the panties match the bra, you are posing.
Not true. I ride my K1100LT without a helmet because it's an awesome bike for that and provides great protection from the wind/bugs. (A few bugs sneak over the windscreen but a bandanna on the forehead takes care of that.) I wouldn't ride any of my other bike without a FF helmet because of the wind/bugs.

The funny thing is that in general nobody talks to to me when I ride it without a helmet. The BMW riders are too good to talk to someone who doesn't have a helmet on (ROFLMAO) and the other branders don't like talking to Beemer owners anyhow. Usually the only guys who BS with me are older dudes on Harleys who most likely have hundreds of thousands of miles under their belt. They don't seem to give a shit what I'm wearing/riding nor do I care about their choice of ride/gear.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:51 PM   #89
lemieuxmc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
I agree with both you and lemieuxmc, if you can't get the bike around a track without TC at a fairly good clip then you need to spend some more time learning throttle control. However, that doesn't negate the fact that the limiting factor on modern bikes in terms of acceleration is the contact patch of the rear wheel. Without TC you won't be able to wring the most out of a machine because the human nervous system simply can't match the telemetry gathering and reaction speeds of a computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post

Perhaps an example he can relate to a little better is that Marine helo drivers simply can't effectively pilot a CH-46 or V-22 to maximum performance without the flight computer, the control inputs required to do so are simply needed too fast and too complex for humans to perform them to maximum potential. Does this mean CH-46(47 for you hookers in the Army and Airforce) and V-22 pilots are inferior or are using a crutch? No, they are simply using all the tools available to complete the mission with maximum effectiveness. Piloting a high performance motorcycle around a track at the threshold of traction is no different.
I think you get it. Racing classes that allow DTC and ABS are biased toward the ability of the manufacturer to create a more complex (yet faster) racer. They then have a marketable technology for the squid market; Hey kids, can't handle a 150 hp bike without landing on your ass? The new KamayasondaBM XYR1000zrr has DTC and ABS that will let you ride much faster than that old codger on the Norton Commando!

Your example of the V-22 or other high performance aircraft is valid, but only in a very limited, high value situation. The Marines and Army would be much better served operationally by having lots of modern production 46/47's with updated technology rather than the relatively few V-22's that they have available.

One of the greatest attractions of motorcycles is that they offer relatively high performance with a minimal level of complication and expense.

Say... are you a turtle?
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:28 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by thematt View Post
People that say otherwise just haven't had a big enough accident to scare them into choosing the sane option of body armor.



Extrapolating "one" personal experience of "yours", and applying it onto the entire moto world, is a naive, egotistical and narrow visioned outlook on the motorcycling planet.
Kind of like a little kid who burned his hand on the stove and now won't go in the kitchen without a welding hood, leathers and Tillman 850 gloves.


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