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Old 01-12-2012, 09:32 AM   #2146
Wallowa
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Good Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by opposedcyljunkie View Post
Need some clarification. I am somewhat confused here. I always thought that -10 is for cold weather and -30 for hot. My thinking is that the ECU pumps in more fuel the colder the weather gets. Doesn't one need to adjust the temperature more as the weather gets hotter? I'm not sure what effect a small -10 adjustment would do if one were riding on 40 deg C weather.
First I believe the air density triggers more or less fuel [cold vs hot air] and your point is a good one...I know it is counter to what I hope for but hot, less dense air would require less fuel and fuel helps reduce cylinder temps; hence I want more fuel in hot weather not less to lower engine temps...but of course I could be totally wrong!

You mention -10 in 40 C temps..that is 104 F, damn warm. Exactly what the IICE does to fuel/air ratio at that -10 setting and at that air temp is a mystery to me...even though JJ once explained it to me I have gone blank...common malady! I am hoping it puts more fuel in than would otherwise be added at that temp.

As you point out there seems to be a disparity between -10 [hot] vs -30 [cold] and intuitively it should be reversed; lower temp reading in really hot weather [-30] to get more fuel to cool engine, even if cooling is not the primary objective.

Still do not have a clue how you would use the BP and IICE together. Or what the outcome would be.
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Wallowa screwed with this post 01-12-2012 at 09:50 AM
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:57 AM   #2147
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Maybe we should wait for Poolside to chime in.

It wasn't me who wanted to use the BP and Air together. It was someone else. IMO, it wouldn't work.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:39 AM   #2148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opposedcyljunkie View Post

I am under the impression that the BP and the ICE Air set at -20 would provide exactly the same performance. IIRC, you guys mentioned that before somewhere in this long thread. I just got a bit excited to try out something at another temp setting
Heh heh. Yea I get that.

Regarding my comment about trying out the -20C setting on the IICE Air; The reason is that more than a few people have said that their new IICE Air works better than their old Booster Plug. Based on that I say give it a try. Spirit of adventure and all that.

I mean, if the temperature-related components inside the two devices are the same, then the performance should be the same. Now, I don't know if the components are the same. My earlier statements were based on an assumption that anyone making a product like the IICE Air would select the same components. You know, based on engineering principles. That, and the BP website has those temperature charts and such. I figured he didn't fabricate those charts.


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Old 01-12-2012, 12:34 PM   #2149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post
First I believe the air density triggers more or less fuel [cold vs hot air] and your point is a good one...I know it is counter to what I hope for but hot, less dense air would require less fuel and fuel helps reduce cylinder temps; hence I want more fuel in hot weather not less to lower engine temps...but of course I could be totally wrong!

You mention -10 in 40 C temps..that is 104 F, damn warm. Exactly what the IICE does to fuel/air ratio at that -10 setting and at that air temp is a mystery to me...even though JJ once explained it to me I have gone blank...common malady! I am hoping it puts more fuel in than would otherwise be added at that temp.

As you point out there seems to be a disparity between -10 [hot] vs -30 [cold] and intuitively it should be reversed; lower temp reading in really hot weather [-30] to get more fuel to cool engine, even if cooling is not the primary objective.

Still do not have a clue how you would use the BP and IICE together. Or what the outcome would be.
Instead of thinking about it from a temperature vs. air density perspective, think about it from a temperature vs. fuel evaporation perspective instead.

JJ
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:47 PM   #2150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Heh heh. Yea I get that.

Regarding my comment about trying out the -20C setting on the IICE Air; The reason is that more than a few people have said that their new IICE Air works better than their old Booster Plug. Based on that I say give it a try. Spirit of adventure and all that.

I will definitely try the -20 setting soon. But for now, I seem to be enjoying the -10 setting more as I use the bike. It appears to be smoother along the lower midrange rpm area (vs the BP). Also, I have not done any serious and "proper" calculations but my low fuel light (GS tank) now consistently lights up about 50kms later vs the BP. Maybe due to the slightly leaner mixture vs the former -20 setting of the BP?
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:00 PM   #2151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visian View Post

Simple question, probably already been asked, so sorry in advance.

Do you have to have the first product [IICE Air] in order to be able to use subsequent products? [IICE Cool]
Hey there, Visian. Like others have said, the simple answer is yes. But things aren't always simple. Let me explain.

The two products, IICE Air and IICE Cool, do in fact work together. They were designed that way. But you know, now that I've said 'work together', let me change that to 'they compliment each other'. Now let me explain that as well.

When both are connected to the bike, the IICE Air and IICE Cool function independently. That is to say, each one produces a separate and distinct result. And do so at different parts of the motor 'operational envelope'. But, and here's the relevant point: Though separate, the results are complimentary.

Do you get that? The results are not the same, but they blend together to make a seamless whole. One takes over where the other leaves off say. I'm trying to think of an everyday example. Oh, here's one that might fit, a Boilermaker. A shot of whiskey is good, and so is a beer. They're both good, and one is a distinct bump to the other. That's gonna have to do for now as a close enough example.

Now to the other slice of your question; Can you use either of the two devices by themselves? We've all seen that the IICE Air works great by itself. Does the IICE Cool work as well when installed as a stand-alone upgrade?

You know, I want to say 'no' here. But 'no' sounds like the IICE Cool doesn't work well by itself, and it most assuredly does work well by itself. It does perhaps twice as much as the IICE Air. But when the IICE Cool is installed by itself, the result isn't seamless. The parts in the motor's operational range that the IICE Air fills in become noticeably missing if the IICE Cool is installed on the bike separately.

So how can I put this? The IICE Air works better by itself than than the IICE Cool does. Does that make sense? Part A works better by itself than Part B does. It will not do any harm to operate the IICE Cool by itself, but I'd wager that you'd much prefer to have the IICE Air operating with it. You'd miss not having the beer, more than you'd miss the whiskey.


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Poolside screwed with this post 01-12-2012 at 06:34 PM
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:45 PM   #2152
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Quick question which I have not seen the answer to (or maybe I missed it):

Why does the IICE Cool only work with the IICE Air at its -10 setting? Why won't it work on the -20 or -30 settings?
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:13 PM   #2153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opposedcyljunkie View Post

Quick question which I have not seen the answer to (or maybe I missed it):

Why does the IICE Cool only work with the IICE Air at its -10 setting? Why won't it work on the -20 or -30 settings?
Oooh, more mileage out of the above metaphor. Because you wouldn't want to make a boilermaker with a Double Chocolate Stout, you know? It works better with a light pilsner or other pale lager.

All kidding aside. Technically, the -20 and -30 settings on the IICE Air would be too much if used with the IICE Cool. The result is way overfueled. That's why the IICE Air was designed with the -10 setting, to work with the IICE Cool. And get the best possible Transient Throttle control and drivability.

The same holds true if the IICE Cool is used in combination with the other competitive products. If they are used with the IICE Cool the motor will be running far too rich, and will be down on power.


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Poolside screwed with this post 01-12-2012 at 10:20 PM
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:53 PM   #2154
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I figured that. That's why the IICE Cool can't be used for others like the BP which is hard-set at -20
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:06 PM   #2155
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All these metaphors are making me thirsty!
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:36 PM   #2156
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I was lugging along @ low RPM in 1st gear today, when I somehow bumped my throttle hand.
Sweet lofted-mono jeebus, the bike surely did respond.
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:44 AM   #2157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
I was lugging along @ low RPM in 1st gear today, when I somehow bumped my throttle hand.
Sweet lofted-mono jeebus, the bike surely did respond.
Don't ya hate it when that happens? Must be a defect in the design.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:15 AM   #2158
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Ok 1st off stop with the drink metaphores,Im gettin thirsty and still in the am here in MO.
And now for my simple minded review of this here product.
Stats= 02 R1150RT with 20000 miles,everythings stock,10mnths since last TBS,same for valves,autolite plugs,new air filter.
Seat of the pants feel of bike before gizmo= surge appears at 3800rpms,motor does not like to pull at low rpms (ex.4th gear @ 40mph), ok torque from motor, but I feel there should be more torque from an 1150cc engine.

With gizmo=
I now have usable power-torque at lower rpms (4th gear @ 40mph feels much better,no need to downshift on inclines.
Surging has been reduced,but is not gone.
Never had poping thru exhaust and still do not.
Now love to twist thottle coming out of corners


The RT never thrilled me with its power,but its comfort and cornering sold me on a bike that is heavier than two of my last bikes combined.With this product installed I now grin coming out of tight corners.
Thanks for the grins guys.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:38 AM   #2159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Regarding my comment about trying out the -20C setting on the IICE Air; The reason is that more than a few people have said that their new IICE Air works better than their old Booster Plug. Based on that I say give it a try. Spirit of adventure and all that.

After going for a month on the -10 setting, I tried the -20 setting. It didn't seem any different from my BP. But it confirms my earlier observation that at the -10 setting, the bike runs smoother across the rpm range vs the BP or the IICE at the -20 setting. This is on an 07 12GS.

Two immediate advantages I felt from the -20 setting are (a) the off-idle throttle is very slightly less snatchy, possibly owing to the richer mixture the -20 setting provides and; (b) there was the absence of a very slight hesitation during hard acceleration along the 3K rpm range which the -10 setting had. I have gone back to the -10 setting as the latter advantages were too insignificant for me. I get a smoother engine and better fuel economy

My only problem now is the throttle snatchiness, which the IICE Cool should fully-address. It's great to know that I get my best results from the -10 setting, which is the only setting that the IICE Cool can work with. As usual, YMMV.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:30 AM   #2160
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Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by opposedcyljunkie View Post
After going for a month on the -10 setting, I tried the -20 setting. It didn't seem any different from my BP. But it confirms my earlier observation that at the -10 setting, the bike runs smoother across the rpm range vs the BP or the IICE at the -20 setting. This is on an 07 12GS.

Two immediate advantages I felt from the -20 setting are (a) the off-idle throttle is very slightly less snatchy, possibly owing to the richer mixture the -20 setting provides and; (b) there was the absence of a very slight hesitation during hard acceleration along the 3K rpm range which the -10 setting had. I have gone back to the -10 setting as the latter advantages were too insignificant for me. I get a smoother engine and better fuel economy

My only problem now is the throttle snatchiness, which the IICE Cool should fully-address. It's great to know that I get my best results from the -10 setting, which is the only setting that the IICE Cool can work with. As usual, YMMV.
Good review and thanks...could you clarify, your second paragraph, does that "-20 setting" listing of "advantages" include use of the BP? Or does only the IICE give them ["It didn't seem any different from my BP".] ? At -10 you do not have these advantages?

I am reading between the lines, but it sounds like you prefer the -10 because "I get a smoother engine and better fuel economy" for on road riding and less for off road, slow speed, subtle throttle. Could you elaborate. Thanks.
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Wallowa screwed with this post 01-20-2012 at 12:21 PM
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