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Old 01-06-2012, 08:51 AM   #241
vtbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
I suspect you are waiting for a horse that isn't going to come with BMW, and Rotax and Denso has nothing to do with this. BMW designed this engine including the charging system from the ground up except for parts they bought of the shelf. Rotax just put it together to their specifications and occasionally not to lol. Plenty of stators fail on plenty of bikes, my guess would be if BMW addresses it at all it will be in a silent rolling production change.

I have a an F8 coming by for other reasons. I have a 4 channel 200MHZ DSO 2.5GS/S 400pS resolution, A reluctance meter and a 30MHZ 3 phase harmonics analyzer as well as a 2MHZ octopus and I'm quite proficient in all of their use. What is it you wish to see?

Somewhere I have video of the output waveform on one leg at a resolution of 4.2nS a division and the transient induced by unhooking the R/R at 3,000 RPM but I can tell you right now the transient was milk and toast.
Unfortunately, I agree it is unlikely we will get any public response. Eventually BMW will do some thing as this is costing them warrantee expense. The result will likely be a subtle change to the stator design and /or the regulator....likely evan still the same part number...just a mod/revision we will never know about.

So we are on our own. You have an impressive and expensive set of equipment (toys!). Well done!

I'll admit I have no clue at this point. My suspicion is either poor stator insulation materials that degrade and fail with age or poor stator design or materials so that the self limiting function of saturation occurs too late..ie too much self heating.

Insulation materials...I know of no way can find out what they are. ..to see if there is enough design margin to survive the worst case heat in operation and life of the engine. Our only hope is some replacement mfg or re winder will come up with a to better high temp retrofit part and sell it as say...a 550F certified part Some type of post mortum diagnosis may..just may give some insights...but that would be a science project.

Stator saturation yep a bit of a long shot. If we could determine/ find out the core material and the winding parameters we could come up with with some predictive saturation curves. This also could be tested with a new stator. One of the earlier posts did indicate current limiting. This would help predict eddy current heating. We already know that the heat dissipation environment in the installed engine is pretty poor.

Transient damage to regulator. due to diode effect of corroded connections or noisy/failing components is essential impossible for us to do. We can not replicate corrosion. dead end. We do not have a real schematic or part list so we do not know what type of on board filtering/decoupling is done in the regulator...nor do we know the main switching components...so can not determine either switching transient noise or susceptibility.
Putting your scope on a good bike and putting it on a failed or failing bike may...may give some in sites..ie looking into a black box....but another long shot science project.

I'm not a motor/ power guy so my knowledge is pretty ad hoc/ poor. Any one on this list have better ideas?
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:51 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
... Any one on this list have better ideas?
You don't like my idea?

post before yours ... no problem I'll get over it .... where's my
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:11 AM   #243
vtbob
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ooops didn't read far enough. my error

Yes it is a good idea.

I think characterizing the stator off a new 2012 f8 bike to a 2009 or so would be interesting....especially if there is a difference. i.e. have they done something different
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Old 01-06-2012, 03:05 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
ooops didn't read far enough. my error

Yes it is a good idea.

I think characterizing the stator off a new 2012 f8 bike to a 2009 or so would be interesting....especially if there is a difference. i.e. have they done something different
Just funn'n
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:51 PM   #245
lmclamore
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One thing that bothers me about the heat theories is wouldn't high mileage/hot climate bikes be failing at a much greater rate than everyone that gets cool to cold months?
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:35 PM   #246
JRWooden
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Yeah, I would think high-mileage, hot climate, bash-plate equipted bikes would be failing faster........

We need to take a pole ............

Can we do that here? I know F800riders.com supports that................
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:38 AM   #247
C5! OP
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sealant ?

Ok I received my new stator, Received also the new compufire regulator. If somebody can tell me how to post multiple pics in the same post I could document the new installation.

BTW in the manual they mention only sealant on the grommet, but not on the faces where goes the gasket, should there be sealant there?

BTW No. 2: anybody would have a spare grommet? that way I could prepare the old, rewound stator, as a spare.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:49 PM   #248
Cesar Serpa
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C5!, where you buy your new stator and regulator?
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:45 PM   #249
GB
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Originally Posted by C5! View Post
If somebody can tell me how to post multiple pics in the same post I could document the new installation.
.
See the link below. Option 2 is your only option.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...66&postcount=1
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:20 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Cesar Serpa View Post
C5!, where you buy your new stator and regulator?
I bought the stator from ElectroSport, the part no. is ESG070 and it is referenced for the F800ST. But as in the maxBMW parts catalog, it is the same part number for the GS and the ST !!
The stator came very well packaged and physically is the same diameter as the original but with a smaller width. The electrician shop told me that didn't made any difference.
On the left the new ElectroSport stator and on the right the old not yet rewinded stator


here on the right the new one and on the left the old one



But don't rush to buy that stator, because in the end it was defective, it lasted all but 5 minutes...
I am waiting for feedback from ElectroSport, I'll let you know.

edit: electroSport asked for the return of the stator for testing.

C5! screwed with this post 01-30-2012 at 05:19 PM Reason: new info
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:25 PM   #251
Billy_b57
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Stator/Alternator

My 09 800GS failed at 69K and I think it started when we were in Alaska .
It developed a SLOW response when I rolled on the throttle Hard .
It failed me on a trip to Ca. right after Alaska. That would of been a nightmare up there .
Shop asked me " do you operate lot of electric's"
Why no sir I don't
Anyway all is good and having no other issues I think I can live with that.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:33 PM   #252
C5! OP
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As for the regulator it comes from Compufire. bought it on Amazon.
the unit is a bit different than the original one.

a bit longer footprint



and a bit thicker



So in order to install it, I had to extend a little bit the bracket. you see the original hole (the one in the middle, and the new one on the left, just solded a little piece of aluminum to extend it.



As for the thickness, it doesn't bother, it doesn't protude out of the frame.



you can also see the new exhaust wrap.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:47 PM   #253
C5! OP
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Now the whole process.
Started Saturday morning, first I wrapped the exhaust pipe, as suggested by Cowboy. It is cheap and can do no more problems than I already have.
Then I installed the new stator, welded all the connections to the plugs etc.. a job well done .
then continued with the new regulator.
Stated the engine and check the voltage. it started to act very erratically, going from 12 to 16 etc... I stopped the engine, reviewed all the connections, nothing wrong there, started again the engine and voltage constant at about 12, in fact wasn't charging at all. stopped the engine. worked in total for less than 5 minutes.
disconnected the alternator plug and read the voltage between the connectors and ground, 2 phases at about 18 V and 1 phase at 0. OKG not again !!!
went home to have a beer.

On Sunday morning went back to disassemble again the alternator. here is a pic of the "new" stator with only 2 out of 3 phases.



and for those interested, th eother side



Hopefully, I had the old stator rewinded, by the same guy in the same shop in Caracas. btw I asked if the insulation of the wire they are using would support peaks of 400V. They said no problem they are using that same wire in the big engine on the front working at 440V



In any case, I installed the old stator, started the engine, checked that we had voltages in all 3 phases, then connected the regulator, and voila, 14.2 V at the battery.
Did a little ride today and running fine.

Now emailed the people at electroSport this morning and waiting for their comments, and see what kind of warrenty they offer. Was the stator defective? was it not designed for that application?
ElectroSport asked for the unit for testing and possible refund

C5! screwed with this post 01-30-2012 at 05:20 PM
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:25 PM   #254
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C5! View Post
....

here on the right the new one and on the left the old one



More laminations make for a more efficient stator (one on the right).
It reduces edy currents which do nothing but make heat, which I think we have all concluded is BAD
I showed this picture to an Electrical Engineer buddy of mine and he was astonished at how thick the laminations are in the BMW version.

Alas, if ElectroSport can't wind the thing properly it doesn't matter -- Hopefully the winding short-circuit was a one-off.

It would be interesting to measure stator temperature of OEM vs. ElectroSport with and without header wrap....

JRWooden screwed with this post 02-01-2012 at 11:53 AM Reason: clarity & brevity... ;-)
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:12 AM   #255
Cesar Serpa
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I wrap my exhaust too. But i still waiting for my rewinded stator :(
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