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Old 01-31-2012, 03:22 AM   #61
twinrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durden View Post
I did put 'upgrade' in quotes ;)

I'm actually quite intrigued by the reliability aspect of the Sertao - I realize its too new to know that, but based on the feedback I hear from G650 owners the engine appears to have all its gremlins worked out from the Dakar days (namely the Water Pump).

I actually like the old Dakar syling better than the Sertao, but I just laugh at what some owners are asking for them, I've seen some for almost $9K CDN, that's less than $1K off a new one (albeit with some extra farkles).

I'm considering looking State side for a nice Dakar.
Glancing at Max BMW's fiche a few part numbers of the water pump have changed but most are the same. Have you heard that the problem's been resolved? Fwiw, no issues with my 2006 Dakar yet at 21,000 km, fingers crossed...
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twinrider screwed with this post 01-31-2012 at 03:36 AM
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:36 AM   #62
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Dakar/Sertao...

I put over 70K trouble-free miles on my Dakar before it was rear-ended two years ago. The Sertao has the same bulletproof Rotax powerplant and these two bikes appear to share the same basic structural components with mainly cosmetic changes on the newer model. I wouldn't be afraid to buy one, but 9-year-old Dakar still has many thousand more miles in her!

It was in legal limbo for over a year and a half before I finally settled the case and ended up keeping the bike, which had damage to the front end and rear tail section.

Right now I'm in the process of restoring her to road worthiness by replacing the spindly and wimpy front forks (same as the new Sertao) with a front end off a Yamaha YZ, beefing up the rear shock, removing the ABS (which sucked on this bike) and replacing the heavy exhaust cans with a lighter single silencer. Hoping the mods will save me 20-30 pounds.

Doing this project I've really been impressed with the quality of the fasteners and other components on the Dakar, compared to the Japanese bikes I've owned. And the fact that with regular service and maintenance my Dakar has been the most reliable and cost efficient to operate bike I've ever owned. Never used a drop of oil and always gets 60+ mpg!

These bikes are neither superlight dirt bikes nor super-comfy big-bore adventure tourers. However, they do better off-road than a 12GS or similar and better on the road than a 250-450. Pretty good at most anything...

At the moment I'm awaiting the shock to come back from the suspension guy and waiting on brake lines (from the ABS removal) before she'll be on the road again... in another week or so! After that the two remaining projects will be to fab up a custom tail section and change out exhausts. Then I hope to ride this bike for the next 10 years or more.

Yesterday:
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:46 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
Glancing at Max BMW's fiche a few part numbers of the water pump have changed but most are the same. Have you heard that the problem's been resolved? Fwiw, no issues with my 2006 Dakar yet at 21,000 km, fingers crossed...
With my 2003 Dakar, I was aware of the water pump issue and at 20-something thousand miles bought the shaft/impeller/seal kit.

However, after many thousand more miles of watching the weep hole for tale-tell seepage, it never materialized. I never changed out mine cuz it wasn't broken - 72,400 miles on it.

I always attributed this to the fact that my bike was ridden almost daily, which I believe is a big help in keeping anything mechanical working properly, in this case keeping the seals conditioned.

Now that my bike has sat idle for over two years with only an occasional cranking and no riding, I'm expecting to have to replace the water pump stuff. But it's not that big of a deal. I think the parts were around $50 and the project is a two or three hour job.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:44 AM   #64
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What I think is interesting is that the list price of the new Sertao at the dealer I looked at was $9445.00. Ok it's on the higher end of 650 duel sport bikes, but you say the Dakar's are in the $6000.00 range used for 7-8 year old model bikes, that figures out to around $450.00 per year depreciation and I'm figuring that from a $9500.00 list price, I know the Dakar's didn't list for that high of price back in their day, so the cost per year would be lower, more like $325.00 per year now. Let me say here, this is not a KLR vs. a Dakar/Sertao debate, this was just to show the cost of ownership of the BMW Dakar/Sertao, or should I say what it has been in the past, going forward who knows.

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Old 01-31-2012, 07:02 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by trainman View Post
What I think is interesting is that the list price of the new Sertao at the dealer I looked at was $9445.00. Ok it's on the higher end of 650 duel sport bikes, but you say the Dakar's are in the $6000.00 range used for 7-8 year old model bikes, that figures out to around $450.00 per year depreciation and I'm figuring that from a $9500.00 list price, I know the Dakar's didn't list for that high of price back in their day, so the cost per year would be lower, more like $325.00 per year now. Let me say here, this is not a KLR vs. a Dakar/Sertao debate, this was just to show the cost of ownership of the BMW Dakar/Sertao, or should I say what it has been in the past, going forward who knows.

John
Excellent point John...

In fact, I bought my 2003 Dakar in 2007 with very low miles (4K) and if it hadn't been wrecked I expect I could get the price I paid or close to it today.

Even after the wreck and rebuild it's worth more than twice what a DR or KLR from the same year would be worth, especially since it now has improved suspension.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:19 AM   #66
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Just read through the thread and had a few thoughts.. not that anyone cares


1. the price of used Dakars will be coming down?? why would you spend 6-7.5k on a used bike when the Sertao is the same bike with a 3 year warranty? The obvious answer to this is that a) the Dakar has a larger tank b) the Dakar was 100% made and assembled in Europe and the Sertao is being built in China,, at least according to the dealer I spoke to.. parts made elsewhere, but assembled in China.

2. If you want the BMW 650 motor in a more dirt worthy bike wait for the reported Husky 650 to come out sometime this year or next... USD forks, longer travel, etc.

3. I have seen quality riders take 650 Dakars places that I thought only a dedicated dirt bike could go.. even with that spindly ass front end.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:42 AM   #67
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Ive been watching this thread with interest. I have a 07 f650gs non daker with 66000kms and a previous post states the different part numbers for the water pump parts, so looking at the Max site it was confirmed the shaft seal kit and the plastic gears are diff. numbers. I hope this means that they have improved the parts on the new bike or maybe it just means the parts are from a diff, source??

I am one of the many who has had problems with the seals and shaft, 5 kits so far in 66000kms! Last change 13000kms ago I changed the left side cover and that seams to help though I still have a drop or 2 of coolant at the weep hole.

Many, as stated before have no problems and many do, lets hope the new bike is problem free!! I sat on one at the moto show and do like it. By the way I am an expert at the shaft and seal change and they really are no big deal.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:53 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Ive been watching this thread with interest. I have a 07 f650gs non daker with 66000kms and a previous post states the different part numbers for the water pump parts, so looking at the Max site it was confirmed the shaft seal kit and the plastic gears are diff. numbers. I hope this means that they have improved the parts on the new bike or maybe it just means the parts are from a diff, source??

I am one of the many who has had problems with the seals and shaft, 5 kits so far in 66000kms! Last change 13000kms ago I changed the left side cover and that seams to help though I still have a drop or 2 of coolant at the weep hole.

Many, as stated before have no problems and many do, lets hope the new bike is problem free!! I sat on one at the moto show and do like it. By the way I am an expert at the shaft and seal change and they really are no big deal.
Cal,

Your above comment has peaked my curiosity. In my post above I mentioned that I've come to believe my bike has escaped the water pump seal problems due to it being ridden daily or almost so.

I'm wondering if yours is also ridden continuously or if it sits weeks or months at a time, such as stored for winter, etc.

Thanks,
David
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:03 AM   #69
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GSBS - Forgot to mention - thats one sweet ride ^^^^^ Good luck on the rebuild.
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:05 AM   #70
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I'm wondering if yours is also ridden continuously or if it sits weeks or months at a time, such as stored for winter, etc
good question. A mixture of both, yes it does sit for long periods of time in the winter but the faliures have happened after long continues rides. For example, I left Arizona for Central America and rode everyday for 7 weeks and the seals went after 10000kms, then after 1 week and 1500kms they went again. Changed at a dealer next time and lasted only 5000kms, this was all riding daily!!!

The 5th change BMW gave me a free new clutch side cover and that was 13000kms ago, rode to Alaska and it leaked small drops for the first 1000kms and has appeared to seal its self after that!??

Now sitting in the Garage at 5 degrees C and lets hope for the best in the spring!
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:16 AM   #71
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GSBS - Forgot to mention - thats one sweet ride ^^^^^ Good luck on the rebuild.
Thanks for the comments... If parts come in when promised, she'll be on the road again in about two weeks!
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:17 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Cal View Post
good question. A mixture of both, yes it does sit for long periods of time in the winter but the faliures have happened after long continues rides. For example, I left Arizona for Central America and rode everyday for 7 weeks and the seals went after 10000kms, then after 1 week and 1500kms they went again. Changed at a dealer next time and lasted only 5000kms, this was all riding daily!!!

The 5th change BMW gave me a free new clutch side cover and that was 13000kms ago, rode to Alaska and it leaked small drops for the first 1000kms and has appeared to seal its self after that!??

Now sitting in the Garage at 5 degrees C and lets hope for the best in the spring!
Well damn... that shoots my "sitting up" theory all to hell.

Guess I've just been lucky (but I'll take it).
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:11 PM   #73
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I put a deposit on one and should have it in a few weeks, waiting for panniers and extra's to be installed. I owned a '03 F650GS (stolen a few months ago) and had no major problems. I put 20,000 miles on it while I owned it, every summer taking a 2 week on/off road adventure trip. Once the clutch cable broke in Nova Scotia and I used vice grips with the back of my left calf to get to a Marine repair shop where this great mechanic made me one for $20. Canadiens are awesome!
Im planning a half way RTW trip for this year and have been looking at '09 '10 F800GS and '06 '07 dakar's and as others have said it seems worth it to spend a little more than the used Dakar's and get 3 years warranty, its a proven bike and lighter than the 800GS although not by as much as I'd like. Im going solo and want the smaller bike.
I just looked at this thread today because I was afraid of the negative comments and suffering the buyers remorse. Im confident Im getting a great bike because of my experience owning one. Also, an advantage for me is I have had my F650Gs apart doing maintenance and repair from a crash so I dont need to learn a lot about a different bike.
I post back after I get it.
Anybody know rules about warranty if I take it out of the US?
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:52 PM   #74
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As far a the warranty they sell them all over the world, I would have my BMW Warranty Card with me, but call BMW to find out for sure. I personally don't know about buyers remorse on this bike, I have too many other riding buddies that have them and they are very happy with their BMW 650's. The Ft. Worth BMW dealer has had a Sertao on the floor now for 4 weeks and has not sold it yet, so I guess there not moving out the door too fast, It might be the $9445 list price that may be holding buyers back. I'm gong to wait for the BMW incentives, in December you could get $1000 off of the 2011 650GS, they were priced at $7299 plus TTL, in Texas that's about $500. Now there priced at $7899 plus TTL.

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Old 01-31-2012, 04:06 PM   #75
twinrider
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Originally Posted by GSBS View Post
removing the ABS (which sucked on this bike)
What didn't you like about the ABS? I find it to be non-intrusive on road even under aggressive braking, and I can switch it off when I ride dirt.
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