spline lube and transmission questions

[supershaft]

As long as you know that I read that back when it came out. I do agree with BMW service bulletins when what they say agrees with what I see. It does happen quite a bit actually. Not in this case. I have seen no correlation between what that bulletin says and what I have seen in the last almost 30 years whatsoever. Not with my own gear or with what I see working.

[Bill Harris]

Said it once, might's well say it again:

If the splines have never had moly lube applied, they'll probably benefit (IMO). One reason a clutch can be grabby is that the clutch plate does not slide freely under load on the input shaft. Moly lube is magic-- it contains molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) which is like little atom-sized ball bearings that (supposedly) actually embed themselves in the steel so the "dry lubricant" properties are still there after the greasy has gone away.

Do it once to a new-to-you bike to reset that maintenance item to zero. Pulling the tranny is a good bonding experience, lets you get up close and personal to check the clutch plates, the engine and tranny oil seals, the throwout bearing, etc, etc. Get that merit badge under your belt and you, too, can pontificate.

[jackd]

He's all yours, Bill....

[Airhead Wrangler]

Originally Posted by Bill Harris

Pulling the tranny is a good bonding experience, lets you get up close and personal to check the clutch plates, the engine and tranny oil seals, the throwout bearing, etc, etc.

Agreed. The half-assed slide the tranny back 1/2" and lube with a tooth brush method is just stupid. It really doesn't save much time if any at all and ensures that you won't do as good a job as you otherwise could. That's my favorite piece of internet BS. I don't much care what anyone, even BMW, has to say about the matter. I know that splines (especially splines that experience thrusting movement) don't like to be dry and rusty. For this reason I lube them. It's never caused me any problems... yet. To each his own. If only they could've found a way to put a zerk fitting on the outside of the tranny and some kind of cover to protect the clutch from slung grease. This would be a moot point. Oh well.

Originally Posted by Bill Harris

Moly lube is magic-- it contains molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) which is like little atom-sized ball bearings that (supposedly) actually embed themselves in the steel so the "dry lubricant" properties are still there after the greasy has gone away.

Also true.

[Bill Harris]

I wouldn't sweat it. Spline lube threads are becoming like oil/tire threads so there has to be some sniping back and forth. And I'm getting over a carpal tunnel slice'n'dice so since I can neither ride nor wrench, I have an excuse to be more testy than usual.

So there. :razz

I just remembered how we came to use moly lube on clutch splines. Worked as a gopher (go-fer) at a VW dealership in 1968 or so. VW's have fine clutch splines and clutches had a tendency to chatter sometimes. VW had just introduced the constant velocity (CV) joint rear axles, which replaced the old swing axles. Moly CV Joint lube was a hot new item, someone got the idea of using it on the clutch splines and found that it worked very well.

[kbasa]

Will you guys quit wasting my time? I have to keep dropping in and throwing this useless bullshit into Explody Heads.

[noman]

well, it's raining here in s vt again and am nearly done w/my annual stuff on my r75/6. w/only 4400 miles done last summer on this bike, didn't think i'd lube the tranny splines again since i did them last year. but, i was bored.

last year i pulled the trans back until nearly all the spline length was exposed, and found a dry spline. i got some full synthetic valvoline moly grease and covered all splines with a thin coat. moly lube is now gone, splines are dry, but still look unworn. clutch was not, and has never been, "grabby".

this time am trying a very thin coat of permatex anti-sieze. does it need it? no idea. does it hurt? prob not.

on the rear wheel splines i can report good results using the same stuff. have always used permatex anti-seize since i bought the bike in 1980. i did sell it to my neighbor, but bought it back since he never drove it. 4 years later i sold to it another guy. he drove it some, but the poor thing was lost in a sea of bikes so i bought it back.

rear wheel splines, annual lube w/anti-seize, 42K miles. you can see the drive and driven sides.

[daveoneshot]

Someone once told me long ago that anti-seize should never be used on parts that move , or slide against each other.
But your splines look good to me, maybe somebody else can chime in and keep this going.

[noman]

yah, permatex anti-seize is supposed to be used on fastener assembly, to prevent galling/corrosion. but i first tried the stuff in '80 on my rear wheel splines and seems to work ok. just passin' along some results for the great unwashed.

[GapRunr]

Time to dig up this old thread.

I've got a 1981 R80 g/s that had about 4,500 miles put on it from new until June of 1990, then sat for 22 years until i bought it. I got it back on the road and the clutch was not grabby. The lever action was very smooth and the clutch worked perfectly. 1,500 miles later the clutch splines are shot and the input shaft is also damaged. It went from working perfectly to completely SNAFU'd in about 300 yards of travel on the road.

Does it make sense to anyone that this could have happened at such a low mileage, and so quickly? I never got any signs that something was wrong, it just started slipping on the splines when I went to pull away from a light.

I'm starting to think this bike may have had more miles on it than the odo led me to believe.

[disston]

Remove transmission. Post pictures of splines.

To answer your question, this does not make sense. What was done to get bike back in service after 22 years being idle?

Have you checked cable adjustment?

[MaraBiker]

Originally Posted by GapRunr

Time to dig up this old thread.

I've got a 1981 R80 g/s that had about 4,500 miles put on it from new until June of 1990, then sat for 22 years until i bought it. I got it back on the road and the clutch was not grabby. The lever action was very smooth and the clutch worked perfectly. 1,500 miles later the clutch splines are shot and the input shaft is also damaged. It went from working perfectly to completely SNAFU'd in about 300 yards of travel on the road.

Does it make sense to anyone that this could have happened at such a low mileage, and so quickly? I never got any signs that something was wrong, it just started slipping on the splines when I went to pull away from a light.

I'm starting to think this bike may have had more miles on it than the odo led me to believe.

I had the same issue with my bike. Bought it with 33.450 km on the clock, and drove it about 2000 km when it suddenly stopped with no previous signs of worn out clutch. It produced unbearable grinding noise on clutch release which I thought was coming from the transmission. Luckily it was worn out clutch splines that where making that sound.Input shaft was not damaged. Mechanic said it was the first time he saw this. I never had any discussions on this with him, so my problem was solved with new clutch plate.

[Bill Harris]

Splines may be shot-- I seem to recall that there was a couple year's model's that has splines that wore quickly. Or, OTOH, the non-flywheel clutch carrier assembly has been known to break the rivets that hold it together. Or, OTOH^2, the bike may have 104,500 miles on the clock.

Pull the tranny and give us pics. Gap Season starts in March, so there's time to get on the road again...

--Bill





PS-- "GapRunr Dual Sport Touring" Just visited. Nice stuff. Your store?

[MaraBiker]

Here's a video channel of a another Harris where you can see him lubing the spline on his oilhead
Some visual guidance is always welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Bavaria.../videos?view=0

[supershaft]

Any airhead that has been setting for 20 years should have the splines lubed. It's the bikes that are being ridden regularly that usually don't need it. I have seen new bikes strip their splines, high mileage and low mileage bikes, old bikes, lubed bikes and not lubed bikes. Dry and rusty splines are not a good thing? Any lubed spline will look dry and rusty in a matter of a few thousand miles. I would recommend lubing them every 3000 miles if that is what you think the problem is.