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Old 02-22-2012, 12:38 PM   #2296
slowoldguy
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I also found this report which tells us a little about where tuefel's head is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuefel
Just a few words on the Booster Plug. As I mentioned in a previous post, I was one of the original testers for the Tiger. What it does is replace the temp sensor in the air box. The stock sensor has a well defined voltage output directly related to the temperature in the air box which the ECU uses to adjust fuel mapping. The Booster Plug just redefines that voltage output using a different kind of thermistor. That works well for some folks and not so well for others. In my case, it didn't work, BUT I had a Leo Vince can, a PiperCross air filter, no Cat or SAI and I removed the Snorkel. In short, the Tiger was not stock anymore. BUT, all of these factors had to do with throttle hesitation. Originally all my bike had was the Leo Vince can with the TOR tune and it ran OK. When I pulled the dbKiller out of the can, there was absolutely NO, NADA, ZIP hesitation. When I started playing with tunes, hesitation would show up depending on the tune, that is why I am running what is very close to the TOR tune where I started. Now to get myself flamed. It is my opinion that many of the tunes and gismos like the BP change more factors in the rider's head than on the bike. Seen it many times on many bikes, if your add something new it almost always seems better. Not saying the BP doesn't work, it does for some. Not saying all riders are crazy, but a lot are LOL.

Search function is a bitch.

Things are becoming clear. His experience with a different product on a different bike is superior to our experiences here. And he's here to tell us what fools we are in believing the scam.

Yeah. Right.

I run my bike WFO as much as anyone I know. I have tested acceleration, roll on, and top speed more times than I can count. Before and after install. Hell. Every time I get on it is a WFO test. lol


My bike just flat runs better with this device. Period. But, yeah. I am just a little crazy. At least he got that part right. ;)

On to the Cool!!!
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:40 PM   #2297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuefelHunden View Post
Lets do clear some things up. Number one the BP on the Tiger was the exact same gismo as on air cooled BMWs only with a different negative slope thermistor. The BP changes the data going to the ECU whether one, two, or 50 cylinders taken (water, air, or oil cooled) from the incoming air stream so that the ECU will make adjustments accordingly. That sure sounds like what the IICE is doing. That has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Tigers or GS's and everything to do with their EFI. Those lots of guys were on Tigers. In about 45 years of riding I have noticed a thing or two about new gismos. When new they always seem to get enthusiastic reviews. After a while people tend to look at things more objectively.
I asked a simple question, do the BP and IICE work in a similar manner? Bet I don't get that answer.
I'm reminded of a quote from the late 1800's…

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” Rev. William H. Poole 1879

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Old 02-22-2012, 01:50 PM   #2298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowoldguy View Post
Just for shits and giggles, I used the "search this thread" function using "boosterplug" and "booster plug" as the search query and poolside as the author. Found plenty. Could have tried "BP" too, I guess.

Here's one result.

Gee. Took me all of 15 seconds to find several posts.
All of these are summarized and referenced in POST 1 of THIS thread
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:32 PM   #2299
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First off: Poolside (and Marketing), we all owe you a

I finally got to install my IICE Air last night, and tested it today. My bike is a stock 2005 R1200GS. I rode to lunch on the -0°C setting, and then switched the jumper over to -20°C for the trip home. Long story short: This thing works.

It wasn't a, "Hey, I just picked up 10 HP!" difference, but the bike definitely accelerates more strongly and smoothly, especially in the 3,000-5,000 RPM range. I also found that it's much easier to lift the front wheel in first gear!

I guess the best way to describe it is, my bike just seems "happier." Calmer. Strong, but less frantic. I'm sure it was just a coincidence that my low fuel warning light came on only minutes after riding off with the IICE Air "switched on"...

BTW, Poolside, I don't know what you do "for real," but the IICE Air is one professional looking piece of kit. The leads were just the right length for easy installation and the unit takes up almost no room. Plus, swapping settings is as easy as popping off the seat. Count me in on the IICE Cool!

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Old 02-22-2012, 06:06 PM   #2300
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Like Mr. Hannum said, "A sucker is born every minute." Both of these products are cheap work band aids to doing the real fix, a re-map. The BP was actually the third item in the snake oil line for Triumphs. The first was sold as FRK, again developed for what ---- BMW's and then used on Triumphs. The guy claimed it had a CPU in it. We had several electrical engineers on that forum who not only caught the FRK developer in a bunch of lies but came up with phase two, a DIY item called DOCTR. Then came BP. Again, the principal behind all of these items is to put a new temperature curve on the air temp sensor to fool the ECU. Anyone who deals with ECU maps will tell you that playing with one sensor is not the way to fly. Although it works for some, the real solution in the Tiger world was the ability to get a free program called TuneECU where they could remap the ECU, change ignition timing and A/R ratio's across the RPM spectrum. BMW's aren't that lucky. Power Commanders and similar boxes are only solutions. Go do some research and find out how the stuff works.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:05 PM   #2301
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Quote:
Like Mr. Hannum said, "A sucker is born every minute." Both of these products are cheap work band aids to doing the real fix, a re-map. The BP was actually the third item in the snake oil line for Triumphs.
Quote:
And he's here to tell us what fools we are in believing the scam.


See? Told ya'll I had him figured out.

He so smaht. We is wrong. We all bow down now. You super-dreamy re-map guy. We all love you long time and wish we were you, Mr. Power Commander man.

There. That should do it. I admitted we were wrong and he was right. That's all he wanted so, why not? It don't cost nothing and it gives him a thrill.

Now you can move along. Your work is done. I'm sure there's another bridge just down the road for ya. ;)

Bring me da Cool!!!!
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slowoldguy screwed with this post 02-22-2012 at 09:57 PM
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:51 AM   #2302
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Ok, everybody calm down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TuefelHunden View Post

Lets do clear some things up. Number one, the BP on the Tiger was the exact same gismo as on air cooled BMWs only with a different negative slope thermistor.
"It was the exact same thing, only different." Did you really just say that?

Regarding the claimed different components, I'm thinking the "different negative slope" would be difficult for the end-user to verify. For example, do you have the part numbers of the claimed different parts used in the two Booster Plug products? I mean, a person could have it on hearsay, or have the components and datasheets in their hand.



The BP changes the data going to the ECU whether one, two, or 50 cylinders taken (water, air, or oil cooled) from the incoming air stream so that the ECU will make adjustments accordingly. [Altering the Intake Air Temp sensor input] has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Tigers or GS's and everything to do with their EFI.
There are a large number of quantitative differences in how the ECU meters fuel on an air-cooled vs. water-cooled cylinder head.


That sure sounds like what the IICE is doing. I asked a simple question, do the BP and IICE work in a similar manner? Bet I don't get that answer.
Sure TH, that's been verified a dozen times in this thread. I think the first post has a link to more info regarding the similarities.


In about 45 years of riding I have noticed a thing or two about new gismos. When new they always seem to get enthusiastic reviews. After a while people tend to look at things more objectively.
I'm gonna say that luckily for me that hasn't happened yet. Apparently I have much better mojo than the other guys.


Like Mr. Hannum said, "A sucker is born every minute."
I would agree with that.


Both of these products are cheap work band aids [compared] to doing the real fix, a re-map.
So that's the Holy Grail is it?


The BP was actually the third item in the snake oil line for Triumphs. The first was sold as FRK, again developed for what ---- BMW's and then used on Triumphs. The guy claimed it had a CPU in it. We had several electrical engineers on that forum who not only caught the FRK developer in a bunch of lies but came up with phase two, a DIY item called DOCTR. Then came BP.
Oh yea? Well then came the IICE Air.


Anyone who deals with ECU maps will tell you that playing with one sensor is not the way to fly.
I can only guess at what skill set the phrase "Anyone who deals with ECU maps" might include. Though I'd bet it doesn't include people who design ECUs. But other than that, I'd agree with you. That people with the same incorrect and incomplete data, will all give you the same answer.


Although it works for some, the real solution in the Tiger world was the ability to get a free program called TuneECU where they could remap the ECU, change ignition timing and A/R ratio's across the RPM spectrum. BMW's aren't that lucky. Power Commanders and similar boxes are [the] only solutions.
I suppose we'll see about that won't we.


Go do some research and find out how the stuff works.
Good idea. But how do you know good data from bad?

If you want to try an IICE Air on your Triumph, set to the -10°C setting, I wouldn't be opposed to it.



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Old 02-23-2012, 04:56 AM   #2303
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I bow down to your collective omnipotence. Once you get over being pissed, if you can, do some homework on FI and ECU's.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:03 AM   #2304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuefelHunden View Post

I bow down to your collective omnipotence. Once you get over being pissed, if you can, do some homework on FI and ECU's.
Don't be silly, there was nothing in your posts to even count-to-10 about. But other than that, I agree. Many folks are learning a lot right here.


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Old 02-23-2012, 05:44 AM   #2305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuseppe View Post

First off: Poolside (and Marketing), we all owe you a

I finally got to install my IICE Air last night, and tested it today. My bike is a stock 2005 R1200GS. I rode to lunch on the -0°C setting, and then switched the jumper over to -20°C for the trip home. Long story short: This thing works.

It wasn't a, "Hey, I just picked up 10 HP!" difference, but the bike definitely accelerates more strongly and smoothly, especially in the 3,000-5,000 RPM range. I also found that it's much easier to lift the front wheel in first gear!

I guess the best way to describe it is, my bike just seems "happier." Calmer. Strong, but less frantic. I'm sure it was just a coincidence that my low fuel warning light came on only minutes after riding off with the IICE Air "switched on"...

BTW, Poolside, I don't know what you do "for real," but the IICE Air is one professional looking piece of kit. The leads were just the right length for easy installation and the unit takes up almost no room. Plus, swapping settings is as easy as popping off the seat. Count me in on the IICE Cool!
Well heck, JP, thank you. (It's amazing what you can get people to say if you ply them with whiskey and hookers. )

All kidding aside, there's quite a bit of extra horsepower on tap. That's what makes for the stronger acceleration and lighter front wheel. And the added benefit is the power is available where you live, at part throttle and middle RPMs.


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Old 02-23-2012, 06:42 AM   #2306
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Wading back in as a partial skeptic... On my Z1000 I went with a power comander. I wanted the lean condition corrected. I ran the "stock-stock" map. My bike wasn't stock. However it was sufficient to enrich the mixture across the poor throttle range. Was there more power? maybe.

The power argument and butt dyno's are largely irrelevantthe same bike same dyno is what matters for power. I don't care that wasn't my end goal. The throttle feel is better so I'm good.

On the butt dyno I actually had a knowledgeable guy ride my Z1000 back to back with his CBR 600. He "felt " the CBR was more powerful. I had a torque curve taht was quite flat (for an I4) so there was no rush. So less power I guess. Peak was about the same.

A common DRZ fix is an enlarged airbox and a richer jet. It makes a world of difference for 5 dollars and 20 minutes. Snake oil to the non believers.

When I started looking at improvements for the BMW I gravitated that way. I read up on all the gizmos and really didn't care for what I saw. The temp offset seemed to arbritrary. Then as I followed this thread saw both the effort the Gent's put in and the fact is was adjustable I felt it was more appropriate than say the BP.

Once installed I noticed a distinct improvement in throttle feel. Just what I wanted.

Poolside's fix did what it was advertised to, power up or down be damned.

But where are my hooker's and whiskey he seems to be holding out....
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:18 AM   #2307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuefelHunden View Post
bla bla bla...... Power Commanders and similar boxes are only solutions.

Solutions to what?

You never stated what your goal was.

Solution to get max power out of the machine for racing?

Solution to smooth out power delivery for a more enjoyable ride in the real world?

The solution you came up with was to jump in like an and ruin the chance to contribute something to this thread... because depending on your goal you do have a point. But unlike Oblio your presentation was poor.






So Poolside, I unlike Hacky have a phobia about extra wiring and in my excitement to excise my GS of the evil Wunderdick wiring harness I ripped it out without thinking of the possibility of using both units together. What is your take on using the IICE and the Wunderdick controller together? Yes I realize remapping the unit would likely be necessary. More testing, more dyno, more money more more. Pandora You Bitch!

The IICE Air does a nice job of smoothing out low rpm on/off throttle but I miss the power up in the upper rpm range. And yes I play up there a fair bit. And with 97k on it now I just can't see changing my riding style just because it's got some gray on it's temples.
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:30 PM   #2308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuefelHunden View Post
I bow down to your collective omnipotence. Once you get over being pissed, if you can, do some homework on FI and ECU's.
Dude if you bothered to do your homework you'd have already found out that Poolside designs electronic systems, including FI.

Like I said, contempt prior to investigation.

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Old 02-23-2012, 01:42 PM   #2309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
Dude if you bothered to do your homework you'd have already found out that Poolside designs electronic systems, including FI.

Like I said, contempt prior to investigation.

JJ
Is that a Troll on the wind...
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:36 PM   #2310
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Originally Posted by ghostrider1964 View Post
Is that a Troll on the wind...
Or a Troll on the hook?

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