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Old 02-09-2012, 10:01 AM   #76
pfb OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjfrider View Post
If you go to DMV with the KTM MSO that says nothing about on or off road, DMW will want to see your purchase and sale agreement for proof of paid sales taxes. If your PSA says off road, then I doubt you'll get plates without the conversion paperwork that I listed above in a prior post. rider
I agree, but it can be a bit tricky...

A few scenarios...

Example 1. Get Plates!
  • New owner
  • Original, signed KTM MSO
  • MSO does not say "off road only"
  • Sale documentation does not say "off road only"
This is good. You can probably walk into the DMV and get title/plates without any additional inspection.

Example 2. Get Plates!
  • New or used owner
  • No original MSO needed. If you have one, or a copy of one, leave it at home!
  • Sale documentation does say "off road only"
  • VIN/Compliance documentation as described in first post.
This is also good. How most folks here are getting their dirt bikes titled/plated.

Example 2. No Plates for You!
  • New or used owner
  • No original MSO.
  • Sale documentation does not say "off road only"
  • VIN/Compliance documentation as described in first post.
Unfortunately, it sounds like this is WestSlope's situation. I believe he is either going to need to locate the original, signed by the dealer MSO or get sales documentation that says off road only.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:51 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestSlope View Post
OK, I was just getting ready to go through the whole process and jump through the hoops like a good little sheep and then I came across this thread! Now it seems I have a decision to make after reading some of these posts. This is what I have going on:

-I have done all the necessary additions to pass the "compliance checklist".
-I have a copy of the "certificate of origin" front and back
-I have a bill of sale, i think...It actually says "purchase agreement", same thing i hope (its a pink copy, has all the vital info like VIN, sale price, etc..)
-I dont have insurance yet, I called my auto insurer and they said that I needed a motorcycle license or permit before I can insure it, so that may postpone the plating until I can get down to the office and take the test and get a permit.

But....I cannot find anywhere on my paper work where it says "for offroad use only"....am I just missing it somewhere on the documents? where is it typically found? bike is a 2009 KTM 450 xcw.

So I dont know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Should I go through the inspection route and then go to the DMV with all the necessary paperwork or should I just go in to DMV first with the COO/bill of sale/insurance/license and hope I walk out with a plate?

Any ideas?

*one more thing, we did buy the bike new from a dealer, so I am the original owner. purchased almost exactly one year ago today.
On your bill of sale, you may need the perjury clause and/or a notorized signature. Titles have ther perjury clause built in, eliminating the need for a bill of sale.
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:15 PM   #78
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Question question

when yo guys get plaets for a bike do they not issue a title for it. Reading some of the above it sounds like you just get registration and plates and no title is needed or issued
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:04 PM   #79
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ok thanks for all the info. Just to clarify, the reason that I only have a copy of the MSO is because i am financing the bike through a local credit union. They have the original but they are holding it since I am making payments and do not fully own the bike yet. I called them and they sent me a copy of the original MSO. I have looked over the paperwork and do not see "for offroad use only" anywhere. Can someone explain to me why the DMV would need to see that somewhere in the paperwork, just not entirely clear on that issue.
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:09 PM   #80
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hmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestSlope View Post
ok thanks for all the info. Just to clarify, the reason that I only have a copy of the MSO is because I am financing the bike through a local credit union. They have the original but they are holding it since I am making payments and do not fully own the bike yet. I called them and they sent me a copy of the original MSO. I have looked over the paperwork and do not see "for offroad use only" anywhere. Can someone explain to me why the DMV would need to see that somewhere in the paperwork, just not entirely clear on that issue.

The lean holder should issue the MSO to the DMV for Plating and the title work then the title be issued as a lein holder title until the loan is paid off. the the credit union would sign the title over to you once it is paid off.

That is unless the bike doesnt have to be titled to be plated. if it doesnt then you guys do have it good...
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:08 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestSlope View Post
ok thanks for all the info. Just to clarify, the reason that I only have a copy of the MSO is because i am financing the bike through a local credit union. They have the original but they are holding it since I am making payments and do not fully own the bike yet. I called them and they sent me a copy of the original MSO.
It occurred to me after I replied that you might not have the MSO because of financing...

When you buy a normal "legal from the factory" vehicle, the lien holder usually works directly with the DMV to convert the MSO into a title with them listed as a lien holder. Don't know if that will work in your situation, but it seems like you could ask your credit union to submit the paperwork to the Colorado DMV and apply for the title, which would then allow you to plate the bike. It would basically involve everybody assuming the vehicle was street legal right from the factory. Not sure the credit union would know the difference, but the "I waited a year to apply for a title" thing might add yet another wrinkle into the process.

Quote:
I have looked over the paperwork and do not see "for offroad use only" anywhere. Can someone explain to me why the DMV would need to see that somewhere in the paperwork, just not entirely clear on that issue.
At first glance, it is definitely a bit weird that Colorado allows you to convert/title/plate a bike that is specifically NOT designed for road use, but unless there is language stating that, the process becomes harder or impossible. But that is the DMV/Colorado rule.

It's probably to prevent people from working around the lost title bonding process by just "converting" a bike that already was legal/titled at one point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABYSS
Question:
when yo guys get plaets for a bike do they not issue a title for it. Reading some of the above it sounds like you just get registration and plates and no title is needed or issued
When you go through the conversion process, you get registration, plates and a full title. I think some have received the title while at the DMV, but I've always received mine in the mail a week or so later.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:31 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestSlope View Post
Just to clarify, the reason that I only have a copy of the MSO is because i am financing the bike through a local credit union. They have the original but they are holding it since I am making payments and do not fully own the bike yet. I called them and they sent me a copy of the original MSO. I have looked over the paperwork and do not see "for offroad use only" anywhere. Can someone explain to me why the DMV would need to see that somewhere in the paperwork, just not entirely clear on that issue.
This was my situation, I had a copy of the MSO and the pink carbon of the Service Agreement and Bill of Sale. This is all I should have needed along with proof of ins and CSP compliance and VIN inspection. My SA at the top righthand side had a check mark dead center between Off Road and Street motorcycle boxes, look see if yours has that. So on my copy of the MSO I had the dealer state "For Off Road" them sign it with their phone number.

P*****a still tried to make it hard by saying the SA was not complete, because it wasn't signed on the back, regardless of the fact that everything needed to walk out of the dealership with a brand new bike was on the front of that SA. A legal document that was then amended and faxed for their approval? Then saying that the dealer needed to fill out additional forms for the MSRP and sales tax collected that was plainly recorded on the front of the SA. WTF was that all about?

She knew exactly what she was doing, she made this all up as she went and it appears she was rewarded with an hour and 15min break, probably on account of stress or something for dicking with a customer until they were furious. Leaving her supervisor to clean up her latest mess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ABYSS View Post
The lean holder should issue the MSO to the DMV for Plating and the title work then the title be issued as a lein holder title until the loan is paid off. the the credit union would sign the title over to you once it is paid off.

That is unless the bike doesnt have to be titled to be plated. if it doesnt then you guys do have it good...
This would be the case in Colorado if it was sold as a street bike, then the lien holder would supply the DMV with the paperwork and it would be in the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfb View Post
When you buy a normal "legal from the factory" vehicle, the lien holder usually works directly with the DMV to convert the MSO into a title with them listed as a lien holder. Don't know if that will work in your situation, but it seems like you could ask your credit union to submit the paperwork to the Colorado DMV and apply for the title, which would then allow you to plate the bike. It would basically involve everybody assuming the vehicle was street legal right from the factory. Not sure the credit union would know the difference, but the "I waited a year to apply for a title" thing might add yet another wrinkle into the process.
Nope, if the bike is for off road only the DMV won't even get involved, until you go to plate it, if it's street legal the credit union will get a title so they have it for collateral. You should, according to all sources, just need the Service Agreement, but a copy of the MSO is probably helpful and if it's getting converted something better say "Off Road Use Only" somewhere on it, then the DMV will send the title to the credit union.

See this DMV link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfb View Post
It's probably to prevent people from working around the lost title bonding process by just "converting" a bike that already was legal/titled at one point..
I think that's the whole point behind the VIN verification hoop. Doubt you'd get far trying that.

The main thing I learned from my latest dance was, if your clerk has an agenda, they'll screw with you and declare edicts that they know are false, which I believe should be criminal.

All said I hope I get to give P******a another go at it. I'm still pissed that a procedure, that should be relatively clear, can be subject to interpretation by any freaking clerk.

So be prepped to ask as calmly as possible why they are making you jump though hoops.
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:31 PM   #83
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When I plated the bike, the DMV issued a title with both our names (the finance company and my own) on the title. I had the original MSO which Elite kindly wrote the financier on the back of.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:16 PM   #84
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Anyone ever get one of these?



Official letterhead, looked up Colorado State title Department, can't find it, but found a number to call on Monday for the Department of Revenue Titles and Registration.

Also a few numbers to call concerning policies of the DMV for plating offroad motorcycles, because no where on the certificate of compliance does it require an speedometer/odometer, so is this policy of the Longmont DMV or the Department of Revenue, why didn't the Dept of Revenue send this to me?

I didn't have to do this in the past and I've not heard of anyone here getting a letter like this, so I wonder what all this could be about?
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:00 PM   #85
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I made up an odometer number.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:36 PM   #86
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Doesn't the KTM have an ODO?
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:07 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Pig View Post
Doesn't the KTM have an ODO?
Yes the 2012 500 XCW does


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Old 03-02-2012, 10:09 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theantipaul View Post
Anyone ever get one of these?



Official letterhead, looked up Colorado State title Department, can't find it, but found a number to call on Monday for the Department of Revenue Titles and Registration.

Also a few numbers to call concerning policies of the DMV for plating offroad motorcycles, because no where on the certificate of compliance does it require an speedometer/odometer, so is this policy of the Longmont DMV or the Department of Revenue, why didn't the Dept of Revenue send this to me?

I didn't have to do this in the past and I've not heard of anyone here getting a letter like this, so I wonder what all this could be about?


Am I reading there letter correct and it is NOT supposed to have a odometer?


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Old 03-03-2012, 05:03 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeterPig View Post
I made up an odometer number.
Brings up an interesting point.... the 200 XC I bought recently was already titled and plated, so I was looking at a simple title transfer and paying taxes on purchase price and fees.

The previous title said "1" on the odometer reading on the front.
The seller correctly checked the box "beyond mechanical limits" - the box you're supposed to check when there is no odometer.

This naturally raised a flag at DMV and I had to fill out a "statement of fact" sheet, stating why there was a number on the front of the title, but a different box checked on the back.

My explanation was that it was a previously converted dirtbike-to-dualsport, and the original equipment was a resettable tripmeter and the original "1" listed was an error since the equipment was resettable.

Moral: be careful of the little things like that. Discrepancies of any size will slow down the works.
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:15 AM   #90
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The bike has an odo, the VIN verification form has a field to fill out that I'm not sure was filled, didn't make a copy.

My understanding is that when you convert a offroad motorcycle to dualsport that a speedo/odo is unnecessary, otherwise it would be on the Cert of Compliance checklist.

Has anyone out there gotten a letter like this or dealt with getting an odo while doing a conversion? YP, PFB?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blakebird View Post
Moral: be careful of the little things like that. Discrepancies of any size will slow down the works.
Yes Blake, if I say it has an odo, they'll tell me to redo my VIN verification, if I say no they'll tell me to get one and redo the VIN verification. Either way they have me jumping through hoops for sport or spite, that could very well be on their whim, not policy.

My point is this Longmont DMV office is dicking with me, and they have a statue to hide behind,

42-3-105. Application for registration - tax.

(c) (I) The department may require those vehicle-related entities specified by rule to verify information concerning any vehicle through the physical inspection of such vehicle. The information required to be verified by such a physical inspection shall include:

(H) The odometer reading of such vehicle; and

(I) Such other information as required by the department.

The "Department" is given incredible leeway here, but in the letter they say the Title Department has rejected it, this statue is written for the DMV for the purpose of collecting taxes, the Title Dept wouldn't have a reason to check if taxes were collected, if they truly rejected it, why didn't the Title Dept notify me.

Since I haven't heard of this in the normal process and with the history of this office, I have suspicions to say the least. So I'll be checking as high up as I can go and we'll see what there is to say.
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